Black Tank Flush

Here is where we left off on the previous forum.

Black Tank Flush

Printed from: Wildcat Owners Forum - wildcatonline.com
Topic URL: http://68.15.40.218/wildcat/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3413
Printed on: 04/07/2008

Topic:

Topic author: scott__z
Subject: Black Tank Flush
Posted on: 04/04/2008 12:11:06 AM
Message:

I have a couple questions for those that have investigated this.

1. What does it really do? I checked out the water line from the outside connection and found that it doesn't go to the tank at all. It goes up to the floor near the stool. It looks to me like this thing is doing nothing more than dumping water down the toilet. I was thinking it operated like a Tornado flush system. Comments?

2. Has anyone had leaks and how did you solve it? Mine leaked for the first time the other day. I had water coming down from where the tubing goes up into the floor.


Scott, Alta, & Kodiak (choc lab)
Rocky Mountains
2007 Wildcat 29RLBS
2000 F350 7.3, Auto, Lariat. John Wood modifications: transmission, Airdog, ITP reg return, AC single shot injectors, DP Tuner.

Photos at: http://picasaweb.google.com/esz999

Replies:

Reply author: pmccook1
Replied on: 04/04/2008 02:29:28 AM
Message:

I believe your basically right about the flush. I believe you have a little more pressure ( whatevers coming straight from the faucet) than whats coming from the stool flushing pressure. Just a good shower from the top of the tank. Probably helps to wash out some of that extra paper left behind from just draining it. But no theres no magic wand in there twirling around.

If you could find a flexible hose to stick down the pipe of the toilet, you could twirl that around I guess, But I assume thats why they mount the Flush systems on the side because you can't get anything down the long pipe to the tank. ?

01' Ford 350 srw lariat
07' WildCat 32Qbbs
Lake Sinclair ,Ga

Reply author: ezrider6298
Replied on: 04/04/2008 04:51:12 AM
Message:

The reason it goes up into the wall is because it goes up to a back flow prevention valve located in the wall, above the level of the black tank, then it comes back down and into the black flush valve located on the tank itself. In my opinion, very poor design. Mine also leaked, the way you described it, the very first time I tried to use it. I cut the two lines going up to the bedroom wall completely out, rerouted the line from the outside connection directly over to the tank, and installed a backflow valve that I purchased in a black tank flush kit at a local RV dealer (around $30, best I remember), attaching it directly to the existing black flush valve on the tank. Corrected the leak. However, I was not happy with the flushing action itself, so I removed the black tank back flush valve, took a small drill bit, enlarged slightly the existing holes in it, and added a few more at different angles, and re-installed. That rascal will do some flushing now!!!,(and, no leaks)

E.C.& Sandra Walker (AKA She Who Must Be Obeyed), and Baby (the "cat child", non-camping)

Reply author: oldelmer1
Replied on: 04/04/2008 11:15:38 AM
Message:

My valve also leaked at the basement ceiling. So I cut the tubing and replaced the back flow valve with a brass one located in the basement.

I posted a picture of it in OUR CAMPER PICTURES. Its the brass fitting at the top right of the picture.

Unlike E.C. I've yet to make my shelf to fill in the original valve access hole, but its on my list!!!!

Tom & Sharon

North East, Maryland
2006 Wildcat 29RLBS
06' F350 XLT 4x2, 6.0 PSD, Auto, 3.73, CC/SB, SRW, Tow Command
Upfitter Switches, 6 CD Changer, Camper Package, Engine Block Heater
16K Reese Slider, Rhino Spray in Lining
KSH Tool Box/Fuel Tank Combo

Reply author: Schrowang
Replied on: 04/04/2008 10:02:31 PM
Message:

Scott,

I purchased one of those wands with the flexible hose on it and the brass whirlygig on the end. That sucker really rotates and puts our some pressure wash. It reaches down into the black water tank, through the toilet and boy can you hear it going to work. I used a clear fitting on the dump hose and the stuff that came down after using that was amazaing.

Mike

2004.5 Ram 2500 CTD, 4WD, 6spd, 4.10 rear, shortbed, Jake Brake.
2006 Wildcat 29RLBS
New Hampshire - "Live Free Or Die!"

Reply author: scott__z
Replied on: 04/04/2008 11:15:41 PM
Message:

I have one of these wands from a previous trailer, but hate dragging a hose through the cat.

What are you referring to "original valve access hole"?

Thanks


Scott, Alta, & Kodiak (choc lab)
Rocky Mountains
2007 Wildcat 29RLBS
2000 F350 7.3, Auto, Lariat. John Wood modifications: transmission, Airdog, ITP reg return, AC single shot injectors, DP Tuner.

Photos at: http://picasaweb.google.com/esz999

Reply author: oldelmer1
Replied on: 04/05/2008 09:59:29 AM
Message:

Scott,

In the bedroom of your 29RLBS, on the wall between the bedroom and the bathroom, you should have a 6x6 access panel. Inside there is the back flow preventer valve. Mine was way up from the hole, so I had to stick my arm way up there.

Someone on here transformed his access hole into a nicely trimmed shelf. I cant remember who, but hopefully they will chime in and take the credit and tell you where to look at the pictures.

Tom & Sharon

North East, Maryland
2006 Wildcat 29RLBS
06' F350 XLT 4x2, 6.0 PSD, Auto, 3.73, CC/SB, SRW, Tow Command
Upfitter Switches, 6 CD Changer, Camper Package, Engine Block Heater
16K Reese Slider, Rhino Spray in Lining
KSH Tool Box/Fuel Tank Combo

Reply author: ezrider6298
Replied on: 04/05/2008 12:53:11 PM
Message:

quote:Originally posted by oldelmer1

Scott,

In the bedroom of your 29RLBS, on the wall between the bedroom and the bathroom, you should have a 6x6 access panel. Inside there is the back flow preventer valve. Mine was way up from the hole, so I had to stick my arm way up there.

Someone on here transformed his access hole into a nicely trimmed shelf. I cant remember who, but hopefully they will chime in and take the credit and tell you where to look at the pictures.

Tom & Sharon

North East, Maryland
2006 Wildcat 29RLBS
06' F350 XLT 4x2, 6.0 PSD, Auto, 3.73, CC/SB, SRW, Tow Command
Upfitter Switches, 6 CD Changer, Camper Package, Engine Block Heater
16K Reese Slider, Rhino Spray in Lining
KSH Tool Box/Fuel Tank Combo



That would be me! You can see the pictures of this (and some other stuff) at http://home.bellsouth.net/p/PWP-ECSandra Just click on the photo albums link, then the upgrades photos

E.C.& Sandra Walker (AKA She Who Must Be Obeyed), and Baby (the "cat child", non-camping)

Reply author: mattebury
Replied on: 04/05/2008 1:31:17 PM
Message:

Where is this access panel in a 29BHBP? the only access panel I see is in the hall to the back of the bath tub.

Mark



2007 Wildcat 29BHBP
2008 F350 King Ranch 4x4 Dually Diesel Long-Bed

Reply author: oldelmer1
Replied on: 04/05/2008 2:27:06 PM
Message:

E.C.

I thought that was you, but you dropped your link from your SIG, and when I went back to one of your posts, I started to doubt my thoughts.

Tom & Sharon

North East, Maryland
2006 Wildcat 29RLBS
06' F350 XLT 4x2, 6.0 PSD, Auto, 3.73, CC/SB, SRW, Tow Command
Upfitter Switches, 6 CD Changer, Camper Package, Engine Block Heater
16K Reese Slider, Rhino Spray in Lining
KSH Tool Box/Fuel Tank Combo

Reply author: scott__z
Replied on: 04/05/2008 2:29:40 PM
Message:

I'll check it out. Thanks

Scott, Alta, & Kodiak (choc lab)
Rocky Mountains
2007 Wildcat 29RLBS
2000 F350 7.3, Auto, Lariat. John Wood modifications: transmission, Airdog, ITP reg return, AC single shot injectors, DP Tuner.

Photos at: http://picasaweb.google.com/esz999

Ok, thanks for the help. I opened the access panel today. What was FR thinking? The hole in my wall is at least 4" off! Anyway, the pipe connection was leaking and there was water dripping out of the back flow device. So now a couple of questions.

1. Is it possible they put it here because it needs to be up high? Can't imagine why, but also can't imagine any other reason for putting it up there.

2. I need to replace my, what are you guys using for a replacement? Any problems relocating it to the basement?

Thanks

Scott,

The backflow preventer needs to be higher than the inlet in order to do its job. Have you noticed that when you disconnect the hose from the flush connection that the water runs back out. That's because the choke point, created by the backflow preventer has closed and because that point is higher than the connection the water trapped on the flush connection side of the valve the water can run out without creating a suction that might draw blackwater from the tank. It's there to protect the park water connection and you.

Many of the valves come packed with a variety of construction debris. Mine was one of them. The debris prevents the water pressure from compressing the ball and spring inside the valve. I have absolutley no idea how all that debris gets into the valve, unless its sabotage at the factory. Mine was really packed. Yours is probably leaking because its restricted.

I took the valve apart, cleaned it, reassembled it and the flusher works fine now.

I use the wand as a backup. I also use the bathroom window to pass the hose into the bathroom. Its alot better than dragging the hose through the whole trailer.

Scottz,

This is what I replaced mine with:

http://www.rvwholesalers.com/catalog/product.php?productid=2350&cat=0&page=1

Did you see the picture I posted in the old forum?

Wouldnt it be nice if we could copy all those pictures over?

I see it, thanks. It looks like this one: Camco backflow preventer

Has anyone figured out why FR mounted it high? Has anyone who moved it into the basement had a problem?

Ok, I stole EC's and Tom's idea. I removed the original backflow preventer, removed the water lines from the wall, and installed a Camco model 23303 attached to the ceiling of the basement. Camco back flow preventer. Link to photos is in my signature.

The backflow needs to be higher to prevent the flow from the water source, ie. hose and clean water, from feeding back from the black tank and contaminating the fresh water used to clean the black tank.

How many of you have seen someone use a fresh water hose to clean out their sewer hose? This practice can contaminate a potable hose. Or, how about someone at a full-hookup site using the water spigot to clean out the hose. This can contaminate the whole fresh water system. I have a backflow device that I use with my grey water hose and eliminates the chance of any cross-contamination. :alien:

Forest River had good for-sight to add the backflow device and I'm glad they did despite the fact that mine was clogged.

Mounted my new one on the ceiling of the basement, hope that's high enough.

Here is a picture of my back flow preventer valve.

[img][/img]

Yeah, just like that.

I am brand new to this forum, so I apologize for posting this in the wrong place if I've done so, but I had my first camping trip in a new '10 FR Wildcat 28t bumper pull trailer last weekend. Even before I used it I decided to check some things out and found that they had put a 1 3/8" hose on a 1 1/4" connection and then just used some white putty goop around it. Needless to say, I got water in the under belly that came flowing out when I looked under the trailer. Well back to my camping trip. Things went fine until I reached the dump station. Okay...I pulled out my waste hose, and grey water flush hose ready to hook them up. Hooked up the gray flush hose, and kneeled down to open the black water cap. Just like a baseball catcher on his knees to stop a pitch into the ground. Oh yes, and I did check the values to make sure they were closed. So off came the cap, and whooosh...out came all kinds of...well try to vizualize Robin Williams in the show "RV". There was some good pressure behind it too. Well after several attempts to put the cap back on and/or check the value, I just had to give up and let it flow. Needless to say what a mess. I called the trailer outfit when I got home and reported this. Hmmmm...I was hoping for more sympathy I guess. Anyway, right now I'd really like to scrap the trailer and get my money back. Just thought I'd share.

Sounds like someone did the old open and close trick on you. I blamed it on kids I told to stop cutting through my camp site. Now I have a clear elbow on it so I can tell if anybody plays with me.
As far as the fitting, RV's aren't perfect and if thats the only problem you have then your rig is built better than most no matter what the brand.
I wouldn't let problems so minor ruin a good time.

It might be a good idea to test the valves before filling your tanks with waste water.

Maybe before your next trip, you should fill all of your holding tanks at home and dump them when you arrive at the campground or campsite. If the valves don't hold back all of the water, at least it won't be filthy and disgusting. It WILL be dirty since the tanks have been used.

We do that now and then, to clean the tanks. On trips to our favorite local campground, we fill the tanks at home, put in the tank chemical (Happy Camper), and let it slosh around during the 30 mile trip. We read someplace that we should add ice to the black water tank when we do this - it helps to get stuff off the sides of the tank. So on our last local trip, we added all of the ice cubes from our ice maker tub in our home freezer to the black water tank.

I have installed a 3" valve right at the cap. There is a valve available with the tabs to hold the cap. You just have to trim off the existing tabs before installing the new valve. This way if the valve is closed I know I will not get a surprise when the cap is removed - even if the other valves have been opened. Another advantage of having that valve there, is, with it and the main black water valve closed, the two grey water valves can be opened to transfer (equalize) grey water from the shower tank to the galley tank. The shower tank always fills up faster.