The Rv dealers do not know.

I just called three RV dealers in our area and asked them if a customer needed an endorsement to their class C license to pull a 5th wheel over 10,001 pounds, in California. All three said no. I explained what the law stated, and they were amazed. They are selling 5th wheels to their customers, and should know the law regarding their product. I recommended that they contact DMV and get the information. If someone can sue McDonalds because of their coffee was to hot, I am sure they can sue RV Dealers for selling units to people who are not licensed to drive them.
My opinion is that we all need to take responsibility for our own actions, and it is up to us to find out what is needed, but I am sure that someone would sue them.

You bring up an interesting point. Can they sue RV Dealers?

I am sure they would find a way. I see some of thease trailers that the RV dealers say are 1/2 ton towable and it scares me to think that unexperinced peopel are being told it's no problem to tow them down the road.

Every state should have that info in an easy-to-navigate website, and vehicle dealers (autos, trucks, rvs) should be required to provide new owners (or even potential owners) with the URL.

Won't happen, but it would be nice.

A memory just came from somewhere in the brain. It took a long journey to become an old memory lost in time. We met a couple in one camp site where a 1/2 Toyota truck was pulling a trailer. Can not remember the size. We got to know the couple and we eventually came to the subject on how the trip over was. Husband said just great. Wife said ya right. 55 on the highway, 25 going up hill and flew down the other side and prayed. Because of wife's demeanor on the subject we abandoned it immediate.

It seems that in the state of Maryland, if I have a trailer over 10,000 pounds, I need a class A or B non commercial license to pull it. I have to take a written test with questions about air brakes, then I have to have someone with me who has at least a class B non commercial license to accompany me to DMV for my test. The test includes a pre trip inspection, which has a real long list of things to do(i guess), including brake drums & linings & seals. Then I have to backup 100 feet, then back to the right, then parallel park, all without hitting a cone. If I hit a cone I fail.

Then after all that, I have to do a road test.

Of all the folks that I have talked to in Maryland, no one has a this license.

oldelmer1 wrote:It seems that in the state of Maryland, if I have a trailer over 10,000 pounds, I need a class A or B non commercial license to pull it. I have to take a written test with questions about air brakes, then I have to have someone with me who has at least a class B non commercial license to accompany me to DMV for my test. The test includes a pre trip inspection, which has a real long list of things to do(i guess), including brake drums & linings & seals. Then I have to backup 100 feet, then back to the right, then parallel park, all without hitting a cone. If I hit a cone I fail.

Then after all that, I have to do a road test.

Of all the folks that I have talked to in Maryland, no one has a this license.

I had to do that for my class C endorsements less the air brakes. You had to get an 80%. I remember the alley dock, long straight backing, etc. The instructor joked about who brought the rig here. She was sarcastic about it considering it was an RV.

There is this guy that works for our State Senator that goes to breakfast the same place we go to. I've been talking to him about this, and he called me today and said YES, over 26,001 pounds combined GVWR, ,I have to have at least a class B non commercial license. He talked to the head of DMV, the the guy said, I know lots of RV drivers are illegal.

So why not make it easy for us to be legal, I'd be willing to pay(we know its all about the money) to be legal, just make it easy.

I told him that California only requires an endorsement, and just a written test, no skills test or pre inspection.

I asked, can we introduce a bill to exempt RV'ers from having to take the regular CDL test. He said he will talk to the Senator tomorrow. I said if she will do it, she will have our 2 votes!!!!

According to Maryland Vehicle Law Title 16 (under transportation) you can drive any noncommercial combination without any special endorsement or tests up to 26k on a Class C.

http://www.lexisnexis.com/hottopics/mdcode/

Code:

§ 16-104.1. Noncommercial licenses


  (a) Class A. --

  (1) A noncommercial Class A driver's license authorizes the licensee to drive combinations of Class F (tractor) and Class G (trailer) vehicles and any vehicle that a noncommercial Class B driver's license authorizes its holder to drive, except:

      (i) Commercial motor vehicles; and

      (ii) Motorcycles.

  (2) An individual who is issued a noncommercial Class A driver's license under this subsection may not drive or attempt to drive a motor vehicle on any highway in this State unless a noncommercial Class A driver's license authorizes the individual to drive a vehicle of the class that the individual is driving or attempting to drive.

(b) Class B. --

  (1) A noncommercial Class B driver's license authorizes the licensee to drive any single vehicle or combinations of vehicles with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) or gross combination weight rating (GCWR), as defined in § 16-803 of this title, of 26,001 pounds and more and any vehicle that a noncommercial Class C driver's license authorizes its holder to drive, except:

      (i) Commercial motor vehicles;

      (ii) Motorcycles; and

      (iii) Combinations of Class F (tractor) and Class G (trailer) vehicles.

  (2) An individual who is issued a noncommercial Class B driver's license under this subsection may not drive or attempt to drive a motor vehicle on any highway in this State unless a noncommercial Class B driver's license authorizes the individual to drive a vehicle of the class that the individual is driving or attempting to drive.

(c) Class C. --

  (1) A noncommercial Class C driver's license authorizes the licensee to drive any vehicle or combination of vehicles with a gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR), as defined in § 16-803 of this title, of less than 26,001 pounds, except:

      (i) Commercial motor vehicles; and

      (ii) Motorcycles.

  (2) An individual who is issued a noncommercial Class C driver's license under this subsection may not drive or attempt to drive a motor vehicle on any highway in this State unless a noncommercial Class C driver's license authorizes the individual to drive a vehicle of the class that the individual is driving or attempting to drive.

(e) Towing activities. -- Except when the towing vehicle is a commercial motor vehicle and subject to the provisions of this section, a noncommercial Class A, B, or C license holder may:

  (1) Tow any travel trailer as defined in § 11-170 of this article;

  (2) Tow any camping trailer as defined in § 11-106 of this article; or

  (3) Tow any boat trailer as defined in § 11-104.1 of this article.



They only thing that is screwing you is your truck's GVWR is 12300# and the trailer's GVWR is 13965#. It could be confused that you are at 26265 combined, but you are not. 20-25% of the trailer's GVWR is supported by the truck so you could argue you are less than 26k GCWR.

Since they define GCWR for you. in Section 16-803

Code:

(g) Gross combination weight rating (GCWR). -- "Gross combination weight rating (GCWR)" means:

  (1) The value specified by the manufacturer as the loaded weight of a combination or articulated vehicle; or

  (2) In the absence of a value specified by the manufacturer, GCWR shall be determined by adding the gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) of the power unit and the total weight of the towed unit and its load.

Dodge (the manufacturer) says the 3500 dually for 2011 is 21000# GCWR w/ 3.73s.

http://www.ramtrucks.com/shared/pdf/RAM_2500_3500_Trailer_Tow_Chart.pdf

The way I see it, Class C non-commercial is fine for your set up.

Jetskier,

I see what you are saying, but DMV says its the total on the sticker of each vehicle. So, my trucks GVWR is 12,200, and the camper is 13,965, so I an just over the 26,001 pounds.

Of course, DMV has no clue as to what the real law is. But the tester remembered me, "YES, THE RV"

I want to ask, how many RV's do you get in for class B non commercial licenses, but I forgot....

I did luck out, there was a truck driving school there and a driver going through the test, so I got to watch. He did great, until the end, the tester said to go around to the right, and he went to the left instead to leave the lot, and ran over a cone, HE FAILED!!!!!

I took the written test yesterday and PASSED!!!! Now on to test 2 of 5, backing up 100 feet, backing up to the right, parallel parking, road test.

All this just to go on vacation.

Moral of my story, know what your state requires, and add up your GVWR of your truck and camper.....

What would be cool is to find someone with a tractor trailer that would let you take the test with a big rig. Much easier to back up with a 40' trailer believe it or not. And with a commercial license your covered for everything.

oldelmer1 wrote:Jetskier,

I see what you are saying, but DMV says its the total on the sticker of each vehicle. So, my trucks GVWR is 12,200, and the camper is 13,965, so I an just over the 26,001 pounds.

Of course, DMV has no clue as to what the real law is.

I don't see the rational in DMV addition. You could have the trailer derated by 300# to comply with DMV math.

I had FR change mine up to 13500 from 11430 with a few emails to Rod Batts. I don't know if Keystone would do the same.

I have a class ABCD Commercial license with air brakes. Also a Fed med card. I am all for people wanting to learn how to handle their RV. I do use things I learned driving truck, while towing our fiver. And probably things learned in class or was on the test.

I'm not sure if it is totally necessary to make all RVer's take basicly a CDL test with pretrip.
I wish all states would offer a basic test with just a basic endorsment that everyone can get. Just enough info to help people to keep traffic smooth and people safe.
I must say, other than check the lights and air in the tires, I never have done a full pre trip inspection on my pick up truck or fiver.
I probably should but am usually in a hurry to leave.

Also as a rule. The DMV or State patrol can interperate the laws as they wish. Must be in their training somewhere. No two will give you the same answer it always seems. Kinda how our government and politicians talk. lol

jetskier wrote:
I don't see the rational in DMV addition. You could have the trailer derated by 300# to comply with DMV math.

I had FR change mine up to 13500 from 11430 with a few emails to Rod Batts. I don't know if Keystone would do the same.

I have thought about this, but how would you do it? Did Rod just send you a new sticker for the side of the camper? I guess it has all the other info too?

I know DMV probably wouldn't check, but what if they go online and lookup what the factory GVWR is?

oldelmer1 wrote:I have thought about this, but how would you do it? Did Rod just send you a new sticker for the side of the camper? I guess it has all the other info too?

I know DMV probably wouldn't check, but what if they go online and lookup what the factory GVWR is?

I got a new sticker and took it to the DMV to get my declared weight on the trailer changed. Cost $5 to reprint in NV. NV uses declared weight not GVWR on the registrations.

I doubt they'd go online to look it up.