So You have a Lippert Frame and you want to know if you are screwed or not Inst. Inside

Step One. Realize most 5ers on the road have Lippert frames and accept that yours may be cracked.

Step two: Remove the Kingpin surround and inspect the welds. These welds are known for being pourus and poorly penetrating on Lippert frames.

Step three: Remove the under panel.

Tools needed
Sharp knife
Putty knife
Screw Gun
Square bit
A buddy (optional)

Start by removing all but two of the edge trim screws. Remove the rear trim entirely by removing all screws and scoring the caulking. Then pop it off with the putty knife.
Once that is removed remove the remaining side trim. Keep in mind that it will be glued in place by both caulking and the putty in the inner seam of the trim. Pry the side trim off and let the panel hang. There will be a 2x4 attached to the front of the panel that will keep it from falling to the ground.



Step Four: Inspect your front and rear crossmembers for cracks and bad welds. If you see cracks or bad welds skip ahead to step six. See pics cracks and bad welds in mine. Also mine is bowed up one inch at the center.







Step Five : Reinstall underpanel (reverse of installation) ( tip #1: hang the middle of the panel first then the rear then the sides) Congrats your frame is ok but you may want to have it reinforced see step 6.

Step Six: So Lippert got cheap on your frame and now you have issues that needed to be corrected for your safety and the safety of everyone else on the road. Lets get started. Call around and find a trailer shop that does repair (not a trailer dealer/ repair shop- they will overcharge, you want a shop that fixes tractor trailers, horse rigs and goosenecks.) If the repair shop has mobile service (some do) leave the bottom panel off and go inside and start tearing out the interior. If they dont just put enough screws in the under panel to make it secure and go on to step seven.

Step Seven: It time to remodel:

Tools
Sharp knife
Putty knife
Screw Gun
Square bit

All of the fixtures in the upstair (bed, cabinet, drawers) are screwed into place. carefully locate all attachment screws and remove the pieces one by one. Then stow them in the living area of the trailer to get them out of the way. Under the furniture you will find wiring fo the front lights. The wiring is simple but I took a pic just to be sure it went back together correctly. So now you have a bare master suite (that is to say everything in the carpeted area is off the floor). Now comes the fun part, stick you hand down between the back side of the cap and the carpeted floor. Thats right, your fingers are now touching you front frame crossmember (the craked one in my pics). Now grab the plywood and with a firm upward motion pull it off the frame. The plywood is nailed in 8 places to the frame rails themselves. It will pop up with some force. Once the plywood is up you will now be shocked to learn that there is no insulation whatsover in the front of your trailer (between the cold ground and your happy ass in the master bed)You should be able to fold the carpet back and see the rails like this.




Now for a structural examination of the issues at hand.

Problem 1: Ten inch gussets on top and three inch on bottom (this will cause the rail to bow upward in the middle due to the in stress load on the beam top to bottom.


Problem 2: 1/8 inch crossmembers that in a perfect load situation can not handle a 10k pound situation


Problem 3: First Rule of structural steel was not observed. The frame (front to back)aid 1/4 inch (or about) the Pin box is nearly 1/4 inch and the frame rail is less than 1/8 inch. In frame building the 1/8 inch would be called a preplaned failure point, crumple zone, or in racing a fuse section ( as in the point built to fail). Lippert should be ashamed and as a community we should pool our collective experiences and take action against them.

Step 7: is coming as soon as i get my trailer back from the shop.

It's almost worth a trip to Reno to look at this first hand.....

My shop just got back to me $800 for the repair. Not bad.

What are they going to do to repair it? Doubler plates on the torn tubes? More gusseting?

Great post and explanations. Is the floor plywood all one piece? Did you start at the front when removing or the rear? Looking forward to seeing how they are going to reinforce the crossmembers and what they tie them into.

Full replacement of front crossmember with 1/4 wall 2x5 and then triangulation using 1/8th wall 2/3 from the front crossmember diagonal back to rear crossmember on both sides. 1/8 plate gussets on everything. It will last longer than the rest of the trailer.

The plywood is one piece and you can leave the carpet attached and pull it off the frame from front to back and use the carpet as a hinge.

Thanks for posting, still debating if I should check ours?

shooter wrote:Thanks for posting, still debating if I should check ours?

Take a piece of string and attach it to the pin box on one side and the nose cone on the other (tape works fine) while un-hooked. Make sure the sting is taunt. Hook up to the truck and take the weight off of the front legs. If the string is still not taunt, you have a problem. I was told that the pin box should not move at all while hitching up.

Very nice write up s4tuner. Mine was torn much worse before I realized there was a problem.

moo2613 wrote:

shooter wrote:Thanks for posting, still debating if I should check ours?

Take a piece of string and attach it to the pin box on one side and the nose cone on the other (tape works fine) while un-hooked. Make sure the sting is taunt. Hook up to the truck and take the weight off of the front legs. If the string is still not taunt, you have a problem. I was told that the pin box should not move at all while hitching up.

Very nice write up s4tuner. Mine was torn much worse before I realized there was a problem.

That's a good idea, will try this weekend.

moo2613 wrote:

shooter wrote:Thanks for posting, still debating if I should check ours?

Take a piece of string and attach it to the pin box on one side and the nose cone on the other (tape works fine) while un-hooked. Make sure the sting is taunt. Hook up to the truck and take the weight off of the front legs. If the string is still not taunt, you have a problem. I was told that the pin box should not move at all while hitching up.

Very nice write up s4tuner. Mine was torn much worse before I realized there was a problem.

There is always deflection. It should be stiff, but some deflection will occur under any load. Doesn't necessarily mean failure.

jetskier wrote:

moo2613 wrote:

shooter wrote:Thanks for posting, still debating if I should check ours?

Take a piece of string and attach it to the pin box on one side and the nose cone on the other (tape works fine) while un-hooked. Make sure the sting is taunt. Hook up to the truck and take the weight off of the front legs. If the string is still not taunt, you have a problem. I was told that the pin box should not move at all while hitching up.

Very nice write up s4tuner. Mine was torn much worse before I realized there was a problem.

There is always deflection. It should be stiff, but some deflection will occur under any load. Doesn't necessarily mean failure.

I agree with you. Pulled many trailers. There is always some deflection. Has to be some give. The worst thing for a 5er is pulling it with a goose neck adapter. The damage I have seen from using them on the other post shows exactly why it is not to be done. They are not designed for the stress.

I don't want to get into moment, shear and deflection diagrams on you folks.....

Has any one had this problem on a unit that is not a bunk house model
Sean

I have read about a few RK models with the same issue. It is not a weight issue it is a vector force issue and a poor material issue.

Ours was a 27RL, but I did have the gooseneck adapter.

What would the bunk house model have to do with it. Do you think they are building the frames differently depending on the model of the coach?

I'm willing to bet they are all the same just the axels welded in different places. and cut to length.

We have a 29 RLBS and had the nasty experience with the kingpin mounting on our Lippert trailer recently. To check if you have a problem try getting under the bedroom and shine a torch forward into the gap around and into the kingpin mounting frame. Ours clearly showed tearing where the box meets the the forward beam. What put us onto it was the floor of the wardrobe (ie the front and centre of the van) was bulging upwards, this caused the trim panels at the side of the wardrobe to bulge.
I was involved in the remedy so if I can be of help please ask away.
Lipperts need a rocket under them for such shoddy manufacture with inadequate gauge tube.
We also discovered hairline cracking of the chassis immediately above the spring hangers where the cross beams are welded to the side rails. Use a torch and a good magnifying glass to look for this as it was not immediately apparent. We were put onto it by another lucky Lippert trailer owner! This is a simple fix requiring some reinforcement to be welded into the outside of the side rails.

Torch = Flashlight down under.

Thanks for the info michaelps and welcome to the forum.

I did the string test and the string stayed tight after the trailer was connected to the hitch.
But I did notice deflection while driving, it appeared the the front cap stayed in place while the pin box deflected: front cap screw had a gap which closed and opened and so on (only one screw, though !?). Here is a screen shot of a video my daughter took with my cell phone (it was on a pretty rough section of I-64 near Norfolk Virginia):

The screw is flush with the cap after unhitched.

Mike Welcome.

shooter wrote:I did the string test and the string stayed tight after the trailer was connected to the hitch.
But I did notice deflection while driving, it appeared the the front cap stayed in place while the pin box deflected: front cap screw had a gap which closed and opened and so on (only one screw, though !?). Here is a screen shot of a video my daughter took with my cell phone (it was on a pretty rough section of I-64 near Norfolk Virginia):

The screw is flush with the cap after unhitched.

The front cap isn't attached to the frame around the pin box or cross member (at least mine floats). It is attached to the top and sides though.

My front cap is the same as Jetskier's, and it shears and/or loses screws. I have never seen any screws work part way out while driving and then be flush when parked, but I will look more carefully. They might be doing that. At this time I do not find any give in the hitch pin when hooking up, but it seems obvious there is a shear effect somewhere.

I have not ben able to get any help from the dealer or Rod Batts at this time.

I suspect the wind force on the front cap is hefty at 60-70mph. The floating screw could be from the flattening effect of the cap as the only free edge is the bottom.

You are probably correct. I wonder if thet ame foce would be enough to shear the screws. If so, there may not be much one can do, for that part, and there may not be a frame issue on some trailers that are losing screws?

retired2 wrote:You are probably correct. I wonder if thet ame foce would be enough to shear the screws. If so, there may not be much one can do, for that part, and there may not be a frame issue on some trailers that are losing screws?

I've lost screws on the soffit panel at the rear of the pin box. My frame is fine. The screws they use are self tapping and are probably over torqued leading to early failure. I broke a couple after inspecting my frame a couple weeks back. The dynamics of the frame during transit induce stresses all over.

michaelps, to the forum. What year is your 29rlbs? We keep reading about the problems with the Lippert frame, and wonder when it's going to happen to us.

Oh I don't like the sound of any of this. We bought our 2011 32qbt last fall and have only hauled it a few times. I have heard the creaking while lowering it onto the truck and when taking it off. I just assumed this was normal as this is my first 5th wheel. I don't suppose there is any chance that this problem was corrected before my trailer was built?

rweller75.

Creaking is probably to be expected - you're lowering and lifting a lot of weight. I don't know if Lippert has made any changes. You have a 2011 - I imagine it would take 2-3 years for any damage to show up. In the meantime, check it carefully and often. Some of the things people have done to fix the problem might be done as maintenance before any problems develop.

We're keeping a close eye on ours, and hoping the problem doesn't show up.... but we'll know what to do if it does - the answers are right here in the forum.