Black Tank Torpedo Cleaner

by bsmall2800 on 3/5/2011, 2:38 pm

I have a question about the black tank cleaner system on my Cat. It seems when I hook up a hose to the outside hose connector bib on the trailer, I hear water rushing through into the the black tank. Then I hear a banging sound from the water then it shuts off spraying in the tank. I then kink the hose and release the kink a little and once again I can hear water spraying inside the tank. If I release the kink all the way I hear the water banging near the tank then I don't hear water spraying.
I did an experiment and just turned on the water only 1/4 to 1/2 open and the spraying continued cleaning the tank until I turned the water off. I did the same one more time with the water valve 1/2 open and spray cleaner was working fine, that's when I turned up the water flow and the spray just shut off and nothing going into the tank.

So anyone have any problems like I have describe, and if so what did you do to fix the cleaner?

Thanks in advance,

by schrowang on 3/6/2011, 8:20 am

One thing you might check is the backflow preventer. On my 2006 29RLBS the BFP was totally clogged with construction debris. I had to take it apart, clean it and reassemble before it would work properly.

Could be that the BFP has junk in it and is letting some by the ball an causing a backup in the line. Take the BFP apart and see if that's the problem.

by bsmall2800 on 3/6/2011, 11:28 am

schrowang wrote:One thing you might check is the backflow preventer. On my 2006 29RLBS the BFP was totally clogged with construction debris. I had to take it apart, clean it and reassemble before it would work properly.

Could be that the BFP has junk in it and is letting some by the ball an causing a backup in the line. Take the BFP apart and see if that's the problem.

Mike,

thanks for the advise on the Back Flow Preventer. I think I will wait till summer to chase this one down. Now I wonder if I should either just remove as much of the black under belly sealer beneath the trailer, or just cut a door opening in the under belly cardboard. This would allow me to gain access to that part of the black tank where this BFP valve is located.

by schrowang on 3/6/2011, 5:00 pm

bsmall2800 wrote:
schrowang wrote:One thing you might check is the backflow preventer. On my 2006 29RLBS the BFP was totally clogged with construction debris. I had to take it apart, clean it and reassemble before it would work properly.

Could be that the BFP has junk in it and is letting some by the ball an causing a backup in the line. Take the BFP apart and see if that's the problem.

Mike, thanks for the advise on the Back Flow Preventer. I think I will wait till summer to chase this one down. Now I wonder if I should either just remove as much of the black under belly sealer beneath the trailer, or just cut a door opening in the under belly cardboard. This would allow me to gain access to that part of the black tank where this BFP valve is located.

The backflow preventer on my 29RLBS is located in the wall between the bedroom and the watercloset. It is accessed through a cover held on by 4 screws. Your BFP should be located directly above the blackwater tank and somewhere in the wall above. It should not be down by the level of the tank itself. Look for the 6"X6" panel on the wall of either the watercloset or the bedroom (or whatever room is on the other side of the water closet. Since you have the 28RKBS the front end of your unit should look pretty much like mine does. At least that's what comes to mind when I remember the floor plans for each of our models.

by Timflood on 3/6/2011, 5:04 pm

Back Flow Preventer, on the black tank ?? I don't think I have that on mine. If I do I can't find it. I just see a line going to the black tank

by schrowang on 3/7/2011, 9:24 am

Tim,

On the 29RLBS the Blackwater Tank washer line runs from the entry to the trailer (on the curb side next to the potable water line) and up into the ceiling of the basement. It travels up to the back flow preventer valve in the wall between the watercloset and the bedroom and returns down to the balckwater tank near the 4" black plastic drain line for the toilet.

By law, all trailers that have a blackwater washer line must have a backflow preventer to preven waste water from being syphoned backwards into the RV Park's potable water line.

It's somewhere close to and above the blackwater tanks. Maybe some other 28RKBS owners on here have found theirs.

You might also ask (CHRIS? from FR) if he can help you. He posts on here occaisionally.

by bpdlk33 on 3/7/2011, 11:43 am

My BFP is in the wall between the toilet and bedroom behind a panel that matches the wall. The panel is about 1 foot square and is attached by 4 screws to the bedroom side of the wall. I have the same trailer as you do, and love it.
So for, my BFP has not been a problem.

by bsmall2800 on 3/7/2011, 6:03 pm

bpdlk33 wrote:My BFP is in the wall between the toilet and bedroom behind a panel that matches the wall. The panel is about 1 foot square and is attached by 4 screws to the bedroom side of the wall. I have the same trailer as you do, and love it.
So for, my BFP has not been a problem.

Thanks Lou for the information that you provided about the location of the BFP. You dont realize how much time and frustration you saved me with your information. Now that I know exactly where the valve is I can go in and tear it apart and check for any debris in the valve. If that doesnt work I will order another valve from FR.

Again Lou, yourock

thank you very much, this is what makes this site so helpful, because of members like you. wavesmilys

I owe you a dinner!

by Mopar_Earl on 3/7/2011, 6:59 pm

I removed my BFP and inlet, than installed a city water inlet with built in BFP. Fixed all my problems including the leak that flooded my basement. Also the factory BFP was leaking. It's a real gem and worthless. Never saw a BFP like it and I even laughed when I saw it.

I'm going to use the holes that the factory BFP used for running wiring to add a outlet in the basement and add inverter power to the bedroom TV outlet.

Earl

by bsmall2800 on 3/8/2011, 6:26 pm

Thanks Earl for that information. I not sure what kind of Back Flow Preventer I have installed on my cat. As soon as I pull the inspection panel off of the wall, I might come up with more quesitons on this matter. Hopefully I will inspect the BFP this weekend....

by schrowang on 3/9/2011, 5:18 pm

bsmall2800 wrote:Thanks Earl for that information. I not sure what kind of Back Flow Preventer I have installed on my cat. As soon as I pull the inspection panel off of the wall, I might come up with more quesitons on this matter. Hopefully I will inspect the BFP this weekend....

Bill,

If your BFP is like mine it's made of a two piece black plastic housing which contains a white ball and a spring. The spring presses the white ball up against the inlet side of the housing. When water flows into the housing it presses the white ball down against the spring and allows the water to flow past. When the water pressure shuts down, the spring tension against the ball reseats the ball and prevents any water from syphoning past the ball, into the RV Park's potable water system.

Once you disconnect the hose from the blackwater tank washer connection, water will run back out, but it is only the water that was trapped in the line between the hose connection and the BFP.

by bsmall2800 on 3/9/2011, 6:04 pm

schrowang wrote:
bsmall2800 wrote:Thanks Earl for that information. I not sure what kind of Back Flow Preventer I have installed on my cat. As soon as I pull the inspection panel off of the wall, I might come up with more quesitons on this matter. Hopefully I will inspect the BFP this weekend....

Bill,

If your BFP is like mine it's made of a two piece black plastic housing which contains a white ball and a spring. The spring presses the white ball up against the inlet side of the housing. When water flows into the housing it presses the white ball down against the spring and allows the water to flow past. When the water pressure shuts down, the spring tension against the ball reseats the ball and prevents any water from syphoning past the ball, into the RV Park's potable water system.

Once you disconnect the hose from the blackwater tank washer connection, water will run back out, but it is only the water that was trapped in the line between the hose connection and the BFP.

Thanks Mike for you detailed decription of the BFP valve and how it works. I plan on chasing this down this weekend and I will post what I find along with pictures. Who knows maybe it will help someone else down the road...
Mike, based on your decription of how the valve works with the ball and spring, I can't wait to see just why when I turn the water supply to the washer it shuts off. Maybe there is some debris in the valve causing the problem..
Stay tuned........

by bsmall2800 on 3/12/2011, 6:19 pm

Well I followed the water line from the street side of the Cat it runs across the the top of the basement strorage area. It then goes up in the master bedroom and runs up beneath the sink and attaches to the inside wall of of the sink cabinet next to the sink. I didn't have time to pull the BFP off the cabinet today so I plan on doing it tomorrow..
Pics and results will follow.......

by Mopar_Earl on 3/13/2011, 2:10 pm

Bill,
Here's a link to the upgrade/mod I did with my black tank flush. http://www.wildcatcamperforum.com/t3838-factory-black-tank-flush-upgade-mod#36779

Earl

by bsmall2800 on 3/13/2011, 4:23 pm

Thanks Earl for the link/pictures of how you changed out the BFP. Other things came up today and I didn't get a chance to get out and remove my BFP valve and clean it out yet....
You know I dont quite understand why they chose to mount the BFP where they did. It sure makes it hard to get at. I would say they mounted the valve in place and then dropped the sink in..
Earl, I am wondering if you could put the BFP anywhere in the line????

by Mopar_Earl on 3/13/2011, 4:29 pm

The OEM BFP has to be mounted high due to it's design. You can install a inline brass BFP anywhere like a few people on here did. I believe Tom used a inline on his. I went with the city water inlet instead of a inline BFP due to my flush inlet was leaking.

Earl

by bsmall2800 on 3/13/2011, 6:07 pm

So Earl just so I understand, the BFP valve is in the line at a high point in relation to the black tank. Then as the water line extends down from the BFP and goes into the side of the black tank. I assume it screws into the side of the tank and inside the tank this water line has some kind of an end on it with small holes to create a high pressure water to spray in the inside of the tank. Do I have the mechanics of this black tank cleaner understood??

by Mopar_Earl on 3/13/2011, 6:15 pm

bsmall2800 wrote:So Earl just so I understand, the BFP valve is in the line at a high point in relation to the black tank. Then as the water line extends down from the BFP and goes into the side of the black tank. I assume it screws into the side of the tank and inside the tank this water line has some kind of an end on it with small holes to create a high pressure water to spray in the inside of the tank. Do I have the mechanics of this black tank cleaner understood??

Yeah, that sums it up pretty well. I never seen my flusher so I'm not sure how it mounts to the tank. Never pulled my underbelly yet. It'd be nice if it could be removed and cleaned. It's probably full of junk from the factory. I don't know if it's just a water nozzle or if it spins.

Earl

by bsmall2800 on 3/14/2011, 3:25 am

I ordered the brass Camco BFP just in case I need it if I can't clean out the original one.
Cheers,

by Portagie1968 on 3/15/2011, 12:49 pm

I am so thankful my 2006 30RBLS is not made that way. Just checked mine out and it never enters the BR. Runs completely across the pass through to the the other side and straight down into the black tank. The BFP is screwed right into the hose that comes off the hose bib.

by bsmall2800 on 3/16/2011, 3:09 pm

Well I finally replaced the black tank BFP valve with the Camco Model #23303. I will attach the before and after pictures. I will also post the picture of the original BFP with all of its internal parts. I think I know why the original one failed....

Original BFP:

New BFP (sorry for the blurry picture)

And here is what I think was happening with the original one. In the picture you can see the little piece of white plastic. That piece pushes into the BFP after the spring and ball are in place. What I found was that the little white plactic piece would come out of the BFP and slide into the water line where the collar nut was. This would allow for room for the spring to enter the behind that plastic piece causing the ball to travel further then it was designed to. That's when ball would jump back and forth causing the water to bang and closing off the water supply.... Hope this all makes sense to everyone:

It now works perfect thanks to all of your comments, suggestions, pictures, and knowledge, couldn't have done it without you!

by Mopar_Earl on 3/16/2011, 5:04 pm

Most worthless BFP I've ever came across. Glad you removed it and installed a good BFP.

Earl

by Mopar_Earl on 3/19/2011, 10:50 am

Bad news, the factory black tank flush sprayers are glued in. If you have any issues with it, you'll have to buy another sprayer and mount it near the OEM sprayer. It apprears the supply connection to the OEM sprayer doesn't have a swivel either. I attached a pic.

Earl

by bsmall2800 on 3/19/2011, 12:05 pm

Well Earl lets hope my black sprayer issues stop at the BFP. I dont even want to think about problems with the sprayer at the tank....
Thanks for the pic of the sprayer/tank...
Cheers,

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Black Tank Torpedo Cleaner

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