Camping in Sub-Freezing Temperatures

We are traveling across Texas on our way home and face a couple of nights of sub-freezing temperatures (high 20's and low 30's) with this Artic Cold front that is passing through. I knew how to handle this with our old trailer as the outside water connection was under the kitchen sink. Now we have a 31TS Fifth Wheel and I am not familar with the challenges of dealing with this problem in this fifth wheel. We had not planned on traveling in this type of weather. Any suggestions or ideas.

The only thing I do differently for short term use in cold weather is use our fresh water holding tank for water instead of hooking up to the city water connections at the campground.

Your holding tank is heated from your furnace and no worries of a frozen water hose. I also wait until leaving to hook up any sewer hose for dumping. I can't imagine having to deal with a frozen black water line or valve!

As long as you use your furnace for heating the Cat, everything should be fine. The furnace is what supplies your holding tanks and lines with heat keeping them from freezing.

I used the city water connection and just unhooked before going to bed if the temp was still above 32. It got below that one night before I unhooked and didn't mess anything up. Just store your hose inside and rehook it up in the AM after the sun comes up.
I also opened the drain valves. If its gonna be in the 20's all day where your at , mountainmans way would be the way to go so you'll have water in the morning.
where I was at as soon as the sun came up the temp rose above freezing quick so I could hook my water hose up as soon as I rolled out of bed.

I do the same as MountianMan and Admin depending on the conditions.

We were at Kampers Lodge in Wilson, NC on Sunday, temps dropped to 27F, a neighbor in an older Titanium Fifth Wheel did not unhook his fresh water hose, as we were packing to leave he was leaving to get a new male hose end to fix where it had ruptured, lost about 4 foot of hose.

For the short term be sure to drain your holding tanks and close the drain valves. If you have some, it helps to pour some anti-freeze down the toilet and kitchen/shower drains to make sure that the gate valves have some protection behind them.

Also, stop at a local hardware store or WMart and pick up one of those outside faucet caps make out of foam. Place it over your outside water hook-ups after you detach and drain the freshwater hose. It'll prevent any freezing from reaching inside the line just before the filter housing.

If you haven't insulated around the connections at the back of your shower (accessible through the keyed hatch up high on the side of the Cat) don't be surprised if the shower is frozen in the morning. FR doesn't seem to realize that this is a hard freeze point.

Also, there are "T's" for the hot and cold water lines located just above your low point drain valves. Problem is they are not located far enough up into the insulation to keep them from freezing (had this happen to me). It'll stop the cold and/or hot water from reaching the kitchen sink.

Keep the furnace running during the night and it'll keep the basement warm enough so that the water lines there won't freeze.

I've done a ton of cold weather mods to my 29RLBS and have posted them on the forum. Just do a search to find them.

Best of luck.

I have a 2011 31thsb. I was unaware that the underbelly is heated by the furnace on some models. Is this true for my model? I was aware that the storage area up front is heated. My underbelly is covered and sealed at all edges with sprayfoam.

All Cats have there under belly warmed by the furnace. But I like the idea of sealing the under side with spray foam, (until you need access)
Sean

Thanks Sean. My cat came frome the dealer sealed with the spray foam. I had a 2005 cat previously and it wasn't sealed.

I was thinking of using 1 inch thick rubber adhesive backed door seal to seal along the edges. Agree Sean the spray foam will be a real pain if you need to get into the under belly.

I had opened mine up when I added another fresh tank. It wasn't bad at all. I sealed it back up with the foam so it would all match (keepin the factory look). If yours is not currently sealed the rubber seal is a much better alternative. I would definatly prep the surface realy good because the adhesive will not hold up to the road grime, salt, cold weather.

I am not sure if this is worth doing or not but something to think about. The link below is to a solar web site I been looking at. The system you see is made from Pex pipe and basically gives you radiant heat. For you guys who camp in the cold wilderness you could build a small collector and run the pex to the underbelly of your camper and actually kill two birds with one stone. One is keep the under belly heated and also heat the floor of the camper as well. A friend of mine lives in the Mt.s here in NC has this exact setup for his house and he says it works great. His pex lines are in his concrete under the house. Basically for the rv you would need a small tank for the water and a small pump to circulate the water. According to my friend he has to use controllers on his system to stop the water from getting too hot. I am looking at building a garage for my cat and a workshop and I am seriously looking into setting this system up when I do my flloor. No more cold concrete while mechanicing! The main website has all sorts of do it yourself solar stuff which is pretty interesting. There may be something solar that would work better! Check it out.

http://www.builditsolar.com/Experimental/PEXCollector/PEXCollector.htm

hunter_jb04 wrote:I am not sure if this is worth doing or not but something to think about. The link below is to a solar web site I been looking at. The system you see is made from Pex pipe and basically gives you radiant heat. For you guys who camp in the cold wilderness you could build a small collector and run the pex to the underbelly of your camper and actually kill two birds with one stone. One is keep the under belly heated and also heat the floor of the camper as well. A friend of mine lives in the Mt.s here in NC has this exact setup for his house and he says it works great. His pex lines are in his concrete under the house. Basically for the rv you would need a small tank for the water and a small pump to circulate the water. According to my friend he has to use controllers on his system to stop the water from getting too hot. I am looking at building a garage for my cat and a workshop and I am seriously looking into setting this system up when I do my flloor. No more cold concrete while mechanicing! The main website has all sorts of do it yourself solar stuff which is pretty interesting. There may be something solar that would work better! Check it out.

http://www.builditsolar.com/Experimental/PEXCollector/PEXCollector.htm

Not sure how good this would work when dry camping in the cold. In the more northern latitudes, the sun isn't out enough to make solar work well.

I think someone needs to install a pellet or wood burning stove in the Cat. At least a mini version. Just like they did in the old train cars.

[quoteNot sure how good this would work when dry camping in the cold. In the more northern latitudes, the sun isn't out enough to make solar work well. [/quote]

I don't know either Jetskier. I know my friend lives in the MTs here and says the only time his doesn't produce heat is when is snows and covers his collector. He said when he starts it up, it takes two days for him to get the water system heated. He has a 1000gl tank in the ground to heat. There is a calculation on that site for the tanks size vs square feet and he doubled it just to have the extra capacity. I guess the other negative for dry camping would be the need to run a 12 volt pump to circulate the water.


Jonathan

That's a lot of water to heat. Probably not too efficient and severely over sized. You can use pex and a small boiler and do radiant under a wood floor. They've done it on This Old House. I know there is a push to do geothermal radiant heating, but it wouldn't be practical in an RV.

Over the Thanksgiving we yard camp at our kids. The nights drop to 10-20F. The only problem we had was one night I set the thermostat at 60F & got up to a frozen fresh water supply from tank to the pump. I ran the thermostat up to 75 & got my water back.

In my bathroom at home I have under floor electric heating and it is very expensive to run, but walking bare footed over the heated floor is wonderful.
Sean

We spend the summer in West Yellowstone and the avg AM temp is 41 even in July/Aug. We have a electric tape wrap around the fresh water hose with foam pipe insulation over it. Have never had a problem and don't have to bother continuously unhooking the hose.

I have been living in my camper while working out of town for three years now. There is one major problem on my model that exists with the water lines from the basement to the kitchen. They are outside and depend solely on insulation. This does not work below zero or even at 15F for prolonged periods of time. I had to leave the hot water dripping in the bathroom sink to prevent the outside lines from freezing. Last year I put heat tape along the outside lines to prevent them from freezing.

While the heat tape works good it will not work without electricity so I am now looking at relocating these lines and wonder if anyone has done it.

I am thinking about running them through the heater duct from the kitchen to the basement. Any suggestions.

I got a 50' PIRIT heated water hose this year and it seems to be working great. If setup right I believe it should keep the sewer line from freezing as well. I run it under the sewer line. I am thinking about covering the sewer line with some water heater cover material (Heated hose inside).

Currently I have it in Pennsylvania.

to the forum from the U.K.
All my water pipes are inside or behind the liner on the under side of the Cat which is heated by the furnace, so all you have to do is run the lines between the chassis rails behind the belly liner
Sean

Thanks for the reply. Do you have low point drains in those lines

I was also thinking about some circulation method to prevent freezing of water lines along with other cold weather concerns and was wondering if anyone has tried to use some sort of convection our gravity method of circulation or using a pump.

In some cases where sewer lines are open and electricity is free this could save a lot of propane. I was also thinking about heat pads on the black tank and this would work if other tanks were going to be empty. Eventually using heat pads on the other tanks for when sewer is not available.

WildCatDave wrote:Thanks for the reply. Do you have low point drains in those lines

No all my pipe work in encased between the chassis rails my low point is the dump valve outlet on the side of my cat.
My cat might be different to other cats (I am not sure though) because I have 3 waste tanks and 1 fresh water tank.
I am sure other forum members will let us know how many water tanks they have.
Sean

I also have 4 tanks. The dump valves empty the waste tanks and the drain for the fresh tank is under the tank but water in the lines will remain in the lowest lines even after draining the water heater and the lines that run below the flour level are the lowest. They usually put a drain point in the lowest point in which all lines can be drained completely. Some people have had trouble finding these drains but they are normally in the area by the steps.

Mine are nearly directly below the water heater; no where near the stairs.

My stairs are by the basement. Water heater is in the kitchen inot back

Mine are located just in front of the stairs. They were in the same location on my 2005 wilcat 5er also. My water tank is about 3' behind the stairs. Don't know if this helps anyone. It sounds like there isn't really any kind of standard to the location.

I have looked a few times at my 2010 28 RKBS and have only found a fresh water tank drain (by the tank) and in the basement area, ceiling, just above the water pump, a removable cap on a water line. I always pump about 1 1/2 gal of RV antifreeze through the system and have no problems. (and drain and bypass the water heater) If I am missing a water line drain, I don't know where it is.