Seeking Input on Camper Box Idea

Hi all! One of my hobbies (other than camping) is woodworking. Once retired (now planned for November, 2011) I would like to be able to do some woodworking while we are traveling. DW and I plan to take several long trips per year but we are not planning to become full timers.

Have been dreaming and planning about doing wood turning (small items) and carrying the tools needed in a box to be mounted to the rear of our WC with two receivers. These would be attached below the bumper but on a frame added to the main beams of the WC (no attachment to the bumper).

Here are a couple of images with more info about the ideas. Your input would be appreciated. Thanks to all in advance. The extra images mentioned on the text image do not exist.

Sketch of box:



Text:

What will it weight when loaded?

okdrifter wrote:What will it weight when loaded?

I'm thinking about 600 lbs.

Unfortunatley adding weight to the back of the trailer is really the worst place for it handling wise, and 600 lbs is a lot of weight. There's no way the stock bumper will take it so you would have to come off the frame to support it and that would be even more weight.

Glen, why don't you build your self a trailer that you can pull be hind your Cat. That way you can take you extras when you want too. There seem to be quite a few forum members that tow boats/jet ski's etc. The only mod you would have to do on your Cat is a back bumper and receiver.
Sean

I had my generator / fuel tank on a frame mounted structure on the back of my Cat. Total, it weighed less than #300. It changed the way the Cat handled substantially. Not enough that I took it off, but enough that it always kept me on my toes. I would think #600 would do some damage.

I'd avoid the added weight back there. A tag trailer would be a better bet. Unless you live on the east coast.

Glen you need a toy hauler. That would solve your problem.

Glen you need a toy hauler. That would solve your problem

I'd kinda have to agree with that.... What kinda wood working tools are you taking with you ?

It is a good idea, you could hit some craft fairs on the way and pay for your travels as you go.

This past summer there was a woodworker who stayed at our CG for about two weeks. He had a small lathe, a coping saw and various other tools. He was selling some of the stuff that he made, and had stayed with us to attend the Sourwood Festival in Black Mountain as a vendor.

He was traveling in a motor home and was able to pack everything away pretty neatly.

Appreciate the input everyone. I'll be back for more discussion.

Cor blimey you Have done it to me again Earl,
This is the next item I would want. A rear steer 5th wheel.
http://www.idahotote.com/
Sean

Sean those look better than the swivle {SP} wheel ones.

Thanks to all for your comments. I'm finally getting around to responding. My apologies up front for the length.

Several have remarked on concerns about the weight which would be added to the rear of the trailer. I agree this is an issue. My thought process and plan for addressing weight is:

When the rig was weighed on a CAT scale its first season with us the numbers were:

CAT Scale Weights: (scale weight, rating)

with FW hitched
TV Steer Axle 4,400, 4,670 (under by 270)
TV Drive Axle 5,280, 6084 (under by 804)
TV total 9,680, 9,200 (over by 480)
Trailer Axles 8,000, 10,050 (under by 2,050)
Gross Combination weight 17,680, 22,000 (under by 4,320)

TV only
steer axle 4,400
drive axle 3,460
total 7,940

Thus Pin weight was 1,820, FW total weight was 9,820 and pin weight was 18.5% of FW total weight.

All tanks empty (fresh, both gray and black)
LP tanks about 2/3 full
FW loaded for travel
Fuel tank full
TV loaded for hauling
Myself, DW, 5 yr old grandson

There was 50-75 lbs of firewood in the TV box which will is no longer carried and leveling material weight has been reduced by 50-75 lbs. also.

With other changes made in where certain items were carried (ie moving the cooler from the TV to the rear of the camper just inside the door (50 lbs. moved), keeping clothing bags there also (50 - 75 lbs moved to rear from bedroom) and liquid refreshments under the sofa (50 lbs plus added to rear) the GVWR of the TV should now be about at rating.

We have traveled on several occasions with the fresh water tank full (it’s in the rear) which added about 300 lbs behind the axles and thus takes about that much off the pin weight. I noticed no difference when towing with water in this tank.
If I add 600 lbs in a box at the rear of the trailer the items currently stored inside behind the axles (totaling 150 lbs or more, see above) will be moved forward. This is a 300 lb change in pin weight. I will also be able to move some items from inside the rear of the camper into the basement up front for more weight shift if needed.

My estimate is that the net amount of weight added to the rear of the camper after all these changes will be about the same as when towing with the fresh water tank filled. Since that has already been done with no towing issues my expectation is it will work.

I had previously considered the Swivel Wheel. That product line seems to be intended for large bulky items and adds more length that I’m interested in. It’s more $ than I would like also but since I have not yet priced doing my box maybe that will change. The other products MOPAR Earl linked have the same issues. A storage box would also have to be built on any of these. I am not a fan of double towing; backing two trailers at the same time is tough. The alternative is having to deal with extra horsing around while trying to occupy or leave a site; not interested in that either. I’ve suggested a toy hauler to DW; she likes what we have so that is a NO GO.

Thank you very much for reading all of this. Your reactions would be appreciated.

I forgot one other move which will address the pin wieght issue: the spare tire will move from the rear bumper to under the front as Scottz posted. This should add about 80 lbs to the pin weight also.

What kinda wood working tools are you taking with you ?

It is a good idea, you could hit some craft fairs on the way and pay for your travels as you go.

A mini late for sure, lathe tools and a slow speed grinder for sharpening the lathe tools. Maybe a few bench top tools: drill press, band saw and jointer.

Glen,
Sounds like you've got yourself convinced that this would be a good idea, even though some of the other members advised against it, so go for it. I don't have the expertise to advise you one way or the other.

I have a question, though. What kind of campgrounds do you plan to stay in? Seems to me that you might be making quite a bit of noise. I'm sure you won't be doing anything to disturb people who are relaxing in the evening or sleeping, but wherever I am during the day, I'd like it to be quiet. I'm sure other people would appreciate the same.

Tater

Scruffy and Tater wrote:Glen,
Sounds like you've got yourself convinced that this would be a good idea, even though some of the other members advised against it, so go for it. I don't have the expertise to advise you one way or the other.

Just hope I'm not being too stubborn (I do have a reptutation in that area!)

Scruffy and Tater wrote: I have a question, though. What kind of campgrounds do you plan to stay in? Seems to me that you might be making quite a bit of noise. I'm sure you won't be doing anything to disturb people who are relaxing in the evening or sleeping, but wherever I am during the day, I'd like it to be quiet. I'm sure other people would appreciate the same.

Tater

We stay mostly in state parks and COE campgrounds. I agree with quiet. Most of the tools I listed do not make much noise. A couple can be a little noisy but not bad. By the time I get this completely set up we will be retired and either on long trips (a lot of traveling to get the balance of all 49 states and 13 Canadian provinces colored in) or weekdays near home. I would do most of the wood work on weekdays when campgrounds are often more empty than full.

Glen have you sen these
http://store.lci1.com/shared/StoreFront/product_detail.asp?RowID=82&CS=lci&All=
They could transport a lot of your smaller items
Sean

Sean,
I have looked at those. I was interested but they are only 9 inches deep. Won't hold very much of the items which would go in the box I'm thinking about.

Glen, last night I wrote a very long winded response to your questions but lost it when I tried to preview it. How depressing. Anyways, I'll give you a shorter response now. I have done the exact calculations you have done in preparing the rear hitch box I have been mounting on my trailer. I even moved my spare tire to the front and experimented with water levels in my tank (which is at the very back). Even though Tater's response sounded a little harsh (I am sure that was not the intention) I would say the same thing and just go for it. You have done all the calculations you can, the next thing is to try it. The worst case scenario is that you would have some towing issues (sway) and you would then have to move some the heaviest items more forward. I have carried some pretty heavy items (full size dirt bike) at the very rear of my trailer and did not notice very much difference in towing at all. I have now mounted a hitch box and I am in the process of making a custom bike rack to go above that and will post pictures when it is all complete. Granted, this does not come to 600 pounds as you are hoping, but every time a put something on the rear of my trailer I don't notice any difference so I keep pushing the envelope of what I can carry back there. Some things to keep in mind though. Build everything out of aluminum if you can to save on weight. Second, and this is big, I have heard of structural cracks developing in the middle of trailers from the added stress of carrying things on the back. Keep an eye out for this. This mostly happens on smaller, lighter weight trailers than we have although it can happen. Lastly, considering I have seen some regular travel trailers with huge amounts loaded on the rear bumper racks (400 to 500 pounds minimum) and they say they have no issues. Those trailers have way less hitch/pin weight to play with then we do. So, if our trailers can structurally deal with the added weight that far back, I personally think (and hope) that there will be no issues in the end.

Maximum1989,

Thanks for your comments. No risk that I thought Tater was being harsh. The history from Tater preculudes that conclusion; I was concerned about how my long response explaining how I came to believe the wieght could be dealth with might be percieved badly.

It's good to know someone else done somthing similiar to my plan and had good results. Appreciate your taking the time to comment. Which WC do you have? Have you considered adding your rig to your signature? I will be looking forward to your photos.

I do plan to use aluminum as much as possible except where strength requirements are paramount.

Glen to stop any sway issues you could always add a third axle.
This is not as silly as it seems there are a lot of tri axle trailers out there, plus it would make yours a one off,
Sean

Glen,
I have an 06 27 bhwb. I have one son so I only use the top bunk so I have removed the lower one and I put alot of stuff back there when we travel. I have now moved alot of those things to either the hitch box or in the basement storage. I try and keep the heaviest of items up front.
I have tried to add my information to my signature several times and it never seems to work. I follow the instructions but obviously I am doing something wrong.

Glen,
You are much too kind - really. I just respect the opinions of the people here so much that I was concerned.

Tater

Glen,

I have finally finished the fabrication of the elevated bike rack and rear hitch box on my trailer. With winter not bringing the best of weather and my trailer being stored outdoors I had to pick my days to work on it. It is currently apart in pieces ready for painting. When that is complete I will weigh all the parts plus what I put into the box and let you know what it all came to. I have already done test drives with it mounted and loaded with good results. Give me a couple of weeks or so and I should have more information for you on this topic.

Will do.