Is Wildcat quality dropping?

I was just at my dealer this weekend who has a brand new 2011 Indianna built unit. Most of the units he sells are Oregon built ones and this is the first 2011 I've seen. I was not at all impressed. Looking inside, I noticed that some of the railing above the cabinets was left unstained and didn't match the cabintry at all. Also, the drawer glides were no longer the metal ball bearing type but rather the cheaper single rail, plastic wheel type. The tail lights were back to the previous style single rectangular box style. Why are the new units being built with cheaper products than before?? Seemed strange to me.

It's no doubt all to do with money, ways to keep the weight down and also what they can get away with. If it sells they are going to produce it.

volfirfighter,

Hey I just visited a dealer over the weekend that I trust. He has sold several RV's to the fellas I work with and myself over the years. He has always sung praises of WC's bang for the buck. This time he was very reluctant to encourage me for a new WC. He mentioned some chages in the build quality that seems to indicate they may be cutting some corners in quality. I was bummed because I have always loved my WC even with it's issues. I did look at a Fver called "Sabre" by Palamino. The front cap was much more aerodynamic, and comes standard with a fold down bumper rack for gnerator or storage. The build quality seemed to rival what you would expect from the WC. Stay safe brother.

I'd like to be a fly on the wall at ALL the major RV player's board meetings just to see how they're choosing to handle the recession.

The most common cut-back is to lay off skilled workers, and try to keep production up by using less or cheaper (unskilled) labor.

The second most common cut-back is to use cheaper parts and charge more for them.

The third possible cut-back is to look the other way while an inferior product rolls out the door; then fix the problems later once it's been sold through a retailer...

My friend in the service dept. says that at least half of their work these days is fixing manufacturer flaws. The cost for these types of repairs are billed directly to the manufacturers, not the consumers. But, not all consumers will bring their RV in to correct the flaw(s). Either they will choose to fix it themselves, or they may choose to leave it as-is if it's nothing major.

However, even if the consumer does bring their unit back for repairs, the manufacturer will still save money because they know it's cheaper to pay the retailer's bill than to pay their own skilled laborer's union wages. So, by intentionally manufacturing an inferior product, the manufacturer can potentially save themselves millions of dollars per year by putting the burden on the shoulders of the consumer and their retailer.

TC

TC, not surprised at all with this process. We are seeing that practice more and more every day with this economy. I hope that when the recession gets bad enough and people demand more for what they pay that this will turn around. Until people demand the quality instead of just "dealing" with the frustration and fixing it ourselves, we will continue the practice. It is similar to litigation in reverse order. It is less expensive for a defendant to settle out of court with a plantiff rather than hold the plantiff to the task of proof. The RV owner will settle for a fix, or poor quality because the manufacturer makes it such a pain in the backside.

Talked to my dealer the other day and he said the company approves the warrenty claim then only pays them a part of it . They then have to resubmit the claim to try and get all of the money for doing the warrenty claim. He said if forrest river keeps it up he don't know what he is going to do. He sells other brands and did not say they were not paying. This is another way to try and save a buck .

We walked through several Wildcats at the Hershey,Pa. rv show two weeks ago and were also a bit dissapointed at the quality and little things that they eliminated in our unit. They eliminated the wallpaper border that is about half way up the walls. It doesn't seem like a big deal but to us it made the units seem very plain. They eliminated cabinets above the dinette and a mirror above the tv. Also eliminated wall cabinets on the curbside wall in the bedroom. Those are the items that you can see.
KH

Kevin,
That's very disappointing. IMO, the amount of storage space on the inside can make or break a deal.
We plan on using our present Cat until our daughter takes our truck keys away, so it doesn't make a big difference to us, but I can see how these kind of changes would cause people to look around at the competition.

Tater

Tater, We have the same philosphy with our Cat. We took over 4 years deciding which one really fit our needs and budget, and then spent the following four years adding mods to "tweek" it and "personalize" it.

No one else could ever appreciate our Cat the way we do.

TC

ENGR55 wrote:TC, not surprised at all with this process. We are seeing that practice more and more every day with this economy. I hope that when the recession gets bad enough and people demand more for what they pay that this will turn around.

I wouldn't hold my breath on this one Stevo...Once a company has tasted success by going to the "dark side", there's often very little incentive for them to return to the straight and narrow path.

What saddens me about all this is, American companies USED to be known for quality and pride in workmanship. Today, they're known for greed and cutting corners!! Deception and greed are identical twins; Where you see one, you'll ALWAYS see the other!!

TC

I saw a newer version of my TT at a CG the other day and it looked to me like it may be better quality. It had radius roof edges instead of the sharp edge mine has so the roof material is more scured and it had a 10 gal WH instead of my 6 gal. The overall fit and finish looked very good. Unfortunately, the owner left before I could talk to him.

The DW and I looked long and hard before we got our cat.And in the price range we were looking in everything was close enough in quality that the goodies that came with cat is what made the difference.When you start getting in to the ultra lites,Well....That's a different story.No matter who makes those the quality seemed to be questionable at best.

The DW and I looked (just looked) at some Cats at the Tom Johnson Camping Center in Marion, NC this summer. We went with friends who were really looking to buy, so while they were tied up with the salesforce, we just looked.

In most of the Cats that we saw, the surround on the slide in the dining/livingroom was some cheesy plastic rock kind of stuff, not wood like our '06. There were other, little things that stood out, making us glad we bought ours in 2006.

Our '06 has fared pretty well over the past four seasons of almost continuous use. I never suspected that a 5'er at this price point would be a good most-timer unit. But it has stood up well to the wear and tear and survived almost 30K miles to boot.

Yeah, there were a few things that I had to fix (never had to return to the dealer for W work though) and we've done quite a few mods that make our unit unique to us and very livable.

We do love our Cat

Does anyone know who owns Forest River now? Maybe the owner is where the quality problem starts. Don...........

Manufacturers make models in several price ranges for people to choose from. The Wildcat was affordable for us, and possibly the quality had to suffer recently to keep it in a certain price range.

The manufacturers aren't in the business of giving stuff away, the bottom line is a huge motivating factor for them to stay in business.

If the cost of materials and supplies makes the cost go up for the manufacturers, they either have to raise prices or skimp on quality, or a combination of both..... yet, they still want to appeal to a certain buyer.

Another cost the manufacturer has to deal with is increasing wages, and increasing costs of benefits, such as health insurance.

If the quality of the Wildcat is poor, people will go to another manufacturer or go to a higher price range. I'm sure quality is going downhill for other brands in the same price range as the Wildcats.

When the economy gets better, and people start buying again, in order to keep up the with competition, manufacturers will most likely start improving their quality.

I believe Warren Buffet owns Forest River.

Tater

Warren Buffet does own Forest River. He also owns the following:
Warren Buffet Companies

Jim&Dianne73 wrote:Talked to my dealer the other day and he said the company approves the warrenty claim then only pays them a part of it . They then have to resubmit the claim to try and get all of the money for doing the warrenty claim. He said if forrest river keeps it up he don't know what he is going to do. He sells other brands and did not say they were not paying. This is another way to try and save a buck .

That sucks royally!!!

I just couldn't resist!!!

Warren Buffet owns Geico also

I'm not here to make excuses for the problems with units or to discredit them either. All of the changes that you see are in order to try and provide a better product to you at the same or at the lowest price we can. If we built the same thing year after year, we would be at the back of the pack. Sometimes different products are used that are less exspensive, but aren't used to skimp on quality. We use non-bias outside inspectors to check our units and return them to us with problems they've found to better insure quality. We are also RVIA certified and they are VERY picky about codes and quality. This is a great forum & I'm glad to see complaints as well as praises on here.

wildcater wrote:We use non-bias outside inspectors to check our units and return them to us with problems they've found to better insure quality. We are also RVIA certified and they are VERY picky about codes and quality.

So, is it the unbiased inspectors who are not catching the shoddy workmanship? Or is it the assemblers who are not heeding the advice of the unbiased inspectors? Either way, the process doesn't stop poorly finished units from rolling out the door.

And how does the picky RVIA people fit into this equation?

Just the fact that the industry needs outside independent inspectors and a regulating body such as the RVIA says in itself that there's an inherent problem with quality control within the industry, not just limited to one or two manufacturers.

So...how do you fix a systemic problem that resists being fixed?? There's got to be a reason or reasons why the industry still has problems with quality control even with checks and balances already put into place.

TC

I'm sorry if I misunderstood the previous posts, but I thought the conversation was about quality of parts used and the thought of us not caring about what you the consumer recieved for your money. I'm also sorry if you recieved a poorly built camper. I was mearly explaining that we do take extensive efforts to make sure that we can get everything fixed the first time. The fact of the matter is, these are hand built homes expected to be pulled down the road over bumps and potholes, through wind, rain and snow, and at higher speeds than the shingles on your house can withstand. I'm proud to say that I did the best job I could on every camper I build. The quality of the products that I'm given to build those units are a different story.

The quality of the products that I'm given to build those units are a different story.

I can see your pain in that statement. I'm really surprised to see a lot of the parts/supply makers still in business. I'm sure they're feeling a heck of a squeeze and find themselves having to cut corners on their products just to keep their head above water.

CountryGirl2 wrote:

Jim&Dianne73 wrote:Talked to my dealer the other day and he said the company approves the warrenty claim then only pays them a part of it . They then have to resubmit the claim to try and get all of the money for doing the warrenty claim. He said if forrest river keeps it up he don't know what he is going to do. He sells other brands and did not say they were not paying. This is another way to try and save a buck .

That sucks royally!!!

Found that out when my dealer had to almost rebuild my Cat. Still ended up later shelling money out of our pocket because the dealer did a cheap fix on one problem. Do you blame him.

wildcater wrote:I'm sorry if I misunderstood the previous posts, but I thought the conversation was about quality of parts used and the thought of us not caring about what you the consumer recieved for your money. I'm also sorry if you recieved a poorly built camper. I was mearly explaining that we do take extensive efforts to make sure that we can get everything fixed the first time. The fact of the matter is, these are hand built homes expected to be pulled down the road over bumps and potholes, through wind, rain and snow, and at higher speeds than the shingles on your house can withstand. I'm proud to say that I did the best job I could on every camper I build. The quality of the products that I'm given to build those units are a different story.

And the roads in some places do more damage to this rolling house then we are able to image.