Issues with Sway on fiver ?

Anyone else having issues with sway on their fifth wheel when towing in cross winds? I've been watching every 5th wheel I pass and my axles seem to be closer to center than most. Wildcat 27BH. I also tow a second trailer and it can get kind of hairy in cross winds. Tows fine with not wind. Last week I towed my folk's 5th wheel which has the axles farther back in comparison and it towed like a dream. I even put my trailer behind their fiver and it towed like a dream. No sway even when I tried to get it to sway with tandem trailers. My question is, has anyone ever considered or moved their axles farther back on the trailer? The actual moving of the axles would be the easy part. Just weld on new hangers but the tin and fender work would be the hard part. Does anyone know if you can order replacement sheet metal sections directly from FR? Could reuse the fenders. If a guy tore up the sheet metal from a tire blowing they would have to be replaced so I imagine it's do-able for a price.

Well, I don't think moving the axles is the answer. It sounds like you have a weight distribution issue. Something is not balanced properly. It might behoove you to get the trailer weighed and especially the pin weight. It should be 15 to 25 percent of your trailer weight. I suspect this may be your problem. And when you hook up your other trialer, it just exacerbates it. Something to consider anyway.

Ed's right...You have to have a weight distribution problem.

I would agree that it's a weight distribution problem. Moving the axles back would distribute the weight more on the front. Currently there is 11' 2" from centerline of the two axles to the rear of the camper. There is 12' from the centerline of the two axles to the front of the coach area. Talking to a few trailer fabricators in my area they say that moving axles back is the only way to redistribute the weight due to the design of this model. Fresh water tank being all the way in the back doesn't help either. I don't have any other way to redistribute the weight. I don't have anything to move from the back to the front.

Moving just 1 pound in weight from the back to the front, actually makes the back 2 pounds lighter. so if your spare wheel is mounted at the back and weighs 50 lb moving it further forward moves a lot of lbs nearer the hitch, which should make a difference. Also having a trailer on the back of the fiver will also reduce the pin load due to the the nose weight of the trailer. Because if the load on the back bumper is increased it will reduce the pin weight.

Sean

We had a hard time with sway last year. We were pin heavy. I figured that out when I filled the fresh water one time in the back.
After a blow out, I put E tires on it too. That helped as well. I had and 3/4 ton ext. cab short box truck. That didn't help any.
I've tried to move some things around and it got a little better. This year I purchased a 3500 DRW truck. A little overkill for our Cat but figuring an upgrade for next season. Might still sway some but now I don't notice with the extra wheels on the truck.
Also, still had a lot of chucking, even with the heavy truck. I installed a Mor ryde pin box and I think the entire rig rides much better. Pulled it 3600 miles last month and seemed to be real smooth. Even in high winds.

Another idea Lograf is to connect your outfit together then go a weigh bridge and weigh each axle. then weigh the truck on its own.
If a single axle weigh bridge is not available weigh the whole outfit then just the truck this way you will see what the pin weight is, and you might be able to adjust your load from the weight totals from the weigh bridge.

We had gusts of around 40mph cross winds on our trip back from the lake Sunday. Other than a little more fuel burned, I only noticed the wind a time or two. I was towing double as well. I think I was around 22k gross weight. I'm usually 5k on the truck's front axle, 5.5k on the truck rear, and around 10.5k on both trailer axles and the tag jetski trailer is about 1.5k. I've never weighed the trailer axles separately. I'm fairly well distributed so I think that's why I don't really notice the sway. My old 26' trailer swayed a lot more than the WC ever has.

It's kind of a tough call Lograf...It could be the tire pressure on the cat or the tire pressure on the truck,could be the coupler in the bed of the truck was not mounted far enough forward.I think I would check it all out before taking on the task of moving the axles.

Lograf is there anyone else that can hookup and pull your cat to see if it is a problem with the Cat. I to would look at all other options before moving the axles. I also agree with getting the entire rig weighed to see what your pin weight is. This will also allow you to see what the weights are on your truck axles.

I also upgraded to "E" rated 15's on the Cat. Running about 74 psi in the trailer tires. I run 75 psi in the truck rear tires. It's a good suggestion to have someone else's truck pull it. I'll have to work on that. I'm using a B&W Companion hitch set as far forward as it will go. It is about 2" forward of the rear axle. When I tow double I am using an equilizer hitch which will help transfer the weight to the front of the cat.

Does your 5er sit level? If it's not level that could do it too.If it sits level,That's all I got for ya.

Yes, it's perfectly level.

Prior to heading out last weekend I moved the spare tire from the back bumper to the front storage compartment. I also put 15 gallons of water in the front storage compartment. It did tow better than previously so it is obviously a weight distribution problem. I can't see having to haul extra weight around just to prevent sway though. Seems rediculous. I called Kyle at Forest river to check on the prices of new panels. Not as bad as I thought. $7.20 per foot. Shipping is the killer since the slide out panel is 12 feet long. Looking at $278 with shipping for both sides. Trying to decide if I want to take on the project of moving the axles back or not.

I agree with the other guys. I would find a truck stop with scales and do some weighing. The pin weight on a 27BH is suppose to be 950#'s. Thats the first place I would look. Maybe you can adjust your pin box to get more weight forward if needed. With your truck and the weight distributed correctly sway should be a non issue.

Good Luck

What can you adjust on a pin box to change weight distribution? According to my spec's the hitch weight should be 1080 lbs. But I know my dry weight is 7,500 lbs. and the spec's say it weighs 7,160 lbs.

I not a hitch expert by no means but I thought if you raise your pin box closer to the top which actually lowers the front of your camper. That should move the center of gravity forward and increase your pin weight if your light. One negative is it will reduce the clearance between your truck bed and the camper. Maybe some of the guys on here with the same size camper/truck could tell you which holes they have their hitch and pin box set at.

You mentioned that your rig is level. Most dodge trucks set up higher these days. Have you raised the camper at the springs to compensate or is your truck not to high.

I weighed my rig a at truck stop last year. I think it cost me $7 or so. Next time your on a road trip I would stop refuel and check it out before you go to all the trouble of moving axles. I run my 32QBBS with a F250 70mph on the interstate and have never had any sway issues.

Good Luck

Lograf,

I have the same model trailer as you except mine in a 2006. I don't think that should make any difference. I went to the scales the other day for the first time in five seasons of camping with my set up because I finally thought I should know what this thing actually weighed.
Here are my numbers:

These numbers are my set up loaded for camping, firewood and all. And we take a lot of stuff.

With trailer hooked up: truck, both axles 8450
trailer, both axles 8500
Just truck, no trailer: both axles 6935
My dry weight on the sticker is 7950

So, according to my math (please correct me if I am wrong) I have a pin weight of 1515 (8450-6935). Add this to the trailer axle weight of 8500 and I just break the 10000 lb barrier. Exactly 15% for pin weight on my loaded to the max trailer. This was with about 1/3 water in the fresh tank with all other tanks empty. Those are my numbers, yours probably would be close to that.

Now for your sway issue. I totally agree that the axles "appear" to be a little forward to where they look like they should be. When travelling I do get quite a bit of chucking that I would like to stop but no matter how I pack things I cannot stop it. I guess that is one of the negatives of fifth wheels. Over this past winter I purchased new tires for my truck. Same load capabilities as the stock tires that came with my truck (GMC 2005 2500hd gas) but they did handle the trailer different than the stock tires. I never noticed any sway whatsoever with my old tires but the new ones certainly have some sway. At first I was told to let them wear in, but it has been close to 8000 miles and the problem in still there. Much less than when they first went on, but still there none the less. The sidewalls must not be as strong and the result is a little sway. I have gotten used to it now but it still is annoying. I feel your pain.

So, could it be your truck tires not being up to the task? Maybe. I just know that the first time a pulled my trailer with the new tires on my truck I got a wake up call pretty fast. Two hands on the wheel instantly and an adjustment in the seat. Thank goodness it has improved from then.

One thought to try and move weight forward (if you find this is your only path) is to see if you can move the fresh water tank to the front of the trailer. May be easier and less expensive than moving the axles.

Let me know if you there is anything I can do to help you out in this situation.

Sean wrote: Also having a trailer on the back of the fiver will also reduce the pin load due to the the nose weight of the trailer. Because if the load on the back bumper is increased it will reduce the pin weight.

Sean

This can be a very big problem. If you ever see the the UPS or FedEx truck that tandem tow those shorter trailers, there is usually a dolly underneath the nose of the second trailer so that it exerts absolutely no tongue or pin weight onto the rear of the first trailer.

Like others have pointed out, distributing the weight inside the trailer can go along way in keep it balanced and straight behind the TV. A lot of fifth wheels now incorporate some height adjustment, so you may be able to drop the head lower on the legs to put more weight on the pin. Before you do this though, I would take a good, long look at tandem towing.