A second battery

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A second battery

Post by kwf904 on 1/8/2010, 3:58 am

I don't do much dry camping, maybe once or twice a year. I really don't want to add a second battery box and wire two together in parallel. My thought is to pick up another 12volt and just replace it when the first one runs down. my question is, is there any benefit to having the two wired together other than convenience of not having to swap them out?
Thanks
Jim

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Re: A second battery

Post by scottz on 1/8/2010, 8:41 am

kwf904 wrote:I don't do much dry camping, maybe once or twice a year. I really don't want to add a second battery box and wire two together in parallel. My thought is to pick up another 12volt and just replace it when the first one runs down. my question is, is there any benefit to having the two wired together other than convenience of not having to swap them out?
Thanks
Jim


The advantage to permanent install is that both batteries will be charged and you don't have to mess with swapping them. If you want to do that, I would suggest you just get a good set of jumper cables, insulate the clips, and clip on your second battery when you need it. Changing the batteries would be a pain and would not fit well at all with my policy of little or no work while camping!

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Re: A second battery

Post by Timflood on 1/8/2010, 1:35 pm

If you wait till one goes down then jumper the FRESH on to the one that is dead it will not last too long. The dead battery will pull the good one down fast. It would be best just to add a battery box and forget it. Less trouble in the long run. I have 4, 6volt in mine. I do not understand why they only put 1 battery in RVs [ $$$$ ] 1 battery just don't make it

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Re: A second battery

Post by Portagie1968 on 4/6/2010, 12:30 pm

We ordered our cat with two batteries. Since our Cat was made on Saturday, after a 2 day drunk by the Oregon College students who made it, they forgot to rasie the hyd pump. So we run the 2 6 volt batteries with out the covers and it works fine.

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Re: A second battery

Post by robertz675 on 4/6/2010, 3:00 pm

I have been thinking over the battery situation. Which is better 2-12v batteries or 2-6V batteries?

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Re: A second battery

Post by MountainMan on 4/6/2010, 3:43 pm

If you get true deep cycle group 27 12 volt batteries; there is little to no difference in my mind. Amp hours, depth of discharge, number of discharge/recharge cycles and weight are about equal.

If you get the walmart special "marine" group 24 12 volt batteries you are getting a hybrid and not a true deep cycle battery. The 6 volt golf cart batteries are much better than these.

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Re: A second battery

Post by Portagie1968 on 4/6/2010, 5:42 pm

Mountainman Never heard that they were the same. Wonder why everybody around here only uses 6 volts. Price? Availabilty? Very interesting.

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Re: A second battery

Post by jetskier on 4/8/2010, 8:59 am

Dan,

Here you go...I bought a 4 GC battery box and contorted it in the left over room.


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Re: A second battery

Post by bsmall2800 on 4/8/2010, 11:22 am

jetskier wrote:Dan,

Here you go...I bought a 4 GC battery box and contorted it in the left over room.




[b]Very nice job with the battery installation wavesmilys goodjob a 6 volt battery system beats the 12 volt system all day long in my opinion.....[/b]

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Re: A second battery

Post by MountainMan on 4/8/2010, 1:13 pm

bsmall2800 wrote:

[b]Very nice job with the battery installation wavesmilys goodjob a 6 volt battery system beats the 12 volt system all day long in my opinion.....[/b]


Bill,

Not trying to be argumentative in any way but why do you feel the 6 volt system is better?
Just curious because I see so many RVer's saying the same thing. I just haven't figured out why they all say this.

Someone enlighten me here.

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Re: A second battery

Post by jacandjan on 4/8/2010, 1:57 pm

Maybe this site can answer some questions.

The 12v side of life
http://bart.ccis.com/home/mnemeth/12volt/12volt.htm

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Re: A second battery

Post by bsmall2800 on 4/8/2010, 2:56 pm

MountainMan wrote:
bsmall2800 wrote:

[b]Very nice job with the battery installation wavesmilys goodjob a 6 volt battery system beats the 12 volt system all day long in my opinion.....[/b]


Bill,

Not trying to be argumentative in any way but why do you feel the 6 volt system is better?
Just curious because I see so many RVer's saying the same thing. I just haven't figured out why they all say this.

Someone enlighten me here.


[b]My dealing with 12 volt batteries with my last two trailer (Wilderness and Prowler) it seemed that I was replacing the batteries every other year. Then my father in law installed 6 6 volts batteries in his Excel 5'er and asked him why he changed. He was told that the 6 volts would out last the 12 volts in his trailer. His batteries lasted about 6 years before he replaced them. So I took the idea and installed 2 6 volts in my 92 Prowler. Those batteries lasted 5 1/2 years before I replaced them. I also read somewhere that the golf cart style batteries were designed to be completely discharged and would return to a full 100% charge over and over again. So I have had such good luck with the 6 volt set up, when I bought my new Cat in Decemeber I had the dealer remove the two 12 volts and installed 4 6 volts batteries.
So hopefully I will get 5 plus years of service out the these batteries. So with that said it made a believer out me.[/
b]

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Re: A second battery

Post by MountainMan on 4/8/2010, 4:39 pm

Thanks Bill and jacandjan. I've read through the 12 volt side of life and think it may be a little dated pertaining to group 27 12 volt batteries.

As I said in my post above I have no doubt of the 6 volt golf cart batteries out-performing the "marine" type 12 volt batteries. These marine batteries are hybrids and are not true deep cycle batteries.
(sponge plates vs. solid lead plates)

However there are true deep cycle 12 volt batteries available in group 27 size rated at 115 amp/hours with solid lead plates. Two of these batteries wired in parallel give the same or perhaps a little more amp/hours (230A/H) as 2 of the average 6 volt golf cart batteries wired in series.

Since they are both true deep cycle batteries, they have about the same depth of discharge and number of discharge/recharge cycles.
The weight is also nearly the same.

I know the 6 volt batteries are a good choice but I'm convinced the 12 volt batteries are a fine choice as well if you get the right 12 volt batteries.

I'm just glad batteries keep getting better with advancing technology. Perhaps one day there will be an electric car..... oh wait

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Re: A second battery

Post by bsmall2800 on 4/9/2010, 12:19 am

You're probably right about the newer batteries that are on the market today like the group 27 12 volt batteries. There a large step above the old Marine/RV deep cycle battery from years past. For me I guess I found something that worked real well so I just stuck with it. Who knows maybe some day I might try the group 27 style batteries, if I hear that people are getting years of use out of them...

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Re: A second battery

Post by kwf904 on 4/9/2010, 12:35 am

MountainMan wrote:Thanks Bill and jacandjan. I've read through the 12 volt side of life and think it may be a little dated pertaining to group 27 12 volt batteries.

As I said in my post above I have no doubt of the 6 volt golf cart batteries out-performing the "marine" type 12 volt batteries. These marine batteries are hybrids and are not true deep cycle batteries.
(sponge plates vs. solid lead plates)

However there are true deep cycle 12 volt batteries available in group 27 size rated at 115 amp/hours with solid lead plates. Two of these batteries wired in parallel give the same or perhaps a little more amp/hours (230A/H) as 2 of the average 6 volt golf cart batteries wired in series.

Since they are both true deep cycle batteries, they have about the same depth of discharge and number of discharge/recharge cycles.
The weight is also nearly the same.

I know the 6 volt batteries are a good choice but I'm convinced the 12 volt batteries are a fine choice as well if you get the right 12 volt batteries.

I'm just glad batteries keep getting better with advancing technology. Perhaps one day there will be an electric car..... oh wait


Could you point me in the direction of one of these batteries that you mentioned above? I would like to see what kind of money they run.
Thanks

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Re: A second battery

Post by scottz on 4/9/2010, 5:08 am

I have twin group 27 AGM batteries. I think they were about $130 each. Still going strong after 3 years.

Trojan Battery


Last edited by scottz on 4/9/2010, 4:47 pm; edited 1 time in total

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Re: A second battery

Post by MountainMan on 4/9/2010, 8:24 am

Jim,

The ones I put in our old 5'er came from NAPA auto parts. They ordered them in for me as they were not a stock item. I think they were around $110.00 They are now starting on their 4th season and still good as new.

The ones I now have in the new Cat were from the local dealer and part of the negotiated price. I'll contact them and get a price.

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Re: A second battery

Post by rekop2500hd on 10/28/2010, 6:29 am

6 volt huh. who would of thunk it. I am going to try this madness because every other year I am replacing these 12-ers. I leave it plugged in all year long so i get almost 3 out of them but 5-6 is just that much better. cheers

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Re: A second battery

Post by Sean on 10/28/2010, 6:43 am

Do not forget that wiring batteries of the same type, BUT not the same age could be detrimental to battery life as the old battery might discharge the new battery, and not give you the battery life you hoped to achieve.
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Re: A second battery

Post by Portagie1968 on 10/28/2010, 7:07 am

New Cat come with the 6 volts. One starting to die and other is going strong. Hope to get 2 more years out of them.

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Re: A second battery

Post by bighornram on 10/28/2010, 9:27 am

Mine came new with 2 trojan 12 volt batteries. I just replaced them with 4 - 6 volt units. No conclusive evidence was presented to me though I decided to try the 6 volt combination because most of the solar websites/forums seem to prefer them. The main arguement that I found was that not all 12 volt batteries are true deep cycle and the 6 volt batteries are. My pair of 12 volt trojans lasted for 5 years so I have no complaints about them.

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Re: A second battery

Post by dragynj on 10/28/2010, 10:19 am

I just wrestled with this decision a month back. Almost went with 6v batteries, but just could not cost justify it. Ended up going with one Optima AGM 12v. I am convinced the charger on the Cat is garbage so I added a battery cutoff switch and a battery tender (way cheaper than changing out the power unit, plus I can take it all with me when the camper goes!!).

In the end I think the 6v battery combo is superior to 12v batteries, but unless you do a LOT of dry camping you won't see any of the benefits.

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Re: A second battery

Post by bsmall2800 on 10/28/2010, 1:02 pm

dragynj wrote:I just wrestled with this decision a month back. Almost went with 6v batteries, but just could not cost justify it. Ended up going with one Optima AGM 12v. I am convinced the charger on the Cat is garbage so I added a battery cutoff switch and a battery tender (way cheaper than changing out the power unit, plus I can take it all with me when the camper goes!!).

In the end I think the 6v battery combo is superior to 12v batteries, but unless you do a LOT of dry camping you won't see any of the benefits.


I couldn't agree more with your response, well said... wavesmilys

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Re: A second battery

Post by joelabq on 10/28/2010, 2:06 pm

I have 3 Group 27 Batteries from Wally World. Works great, more power than we need since we also charge up with 2 External 40amp vector/B&D chargers. After 2-3 days or battery use, Turn on the genset, disconnect with a battery disconnect switch, clamp on the chargers and start them charging. Within a couple hours ready to go again.

If you use an inverter, 12Vs seem to be the way to go. And the more the merrier.

I say purchase as many AMP HOURS as you can afford, if that means 2 or more 6vs, then great. I like the 12s because if one or is shot I'm not down a pair. Only way to insure that more or less is to make sure you have at least four 6v so if one goes bad you can take a set out. With 12s, I take one out and have the other(s). I camp in rural places where 6v are no where to be found.

YMMV.

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Re: A second battery

Post by desertcat on 10/28/2010, 2:16 pm

We dry camp a lot & run on battery for a week or two at a time. We have a battery bank of four 6V & 110 watt solar charge set up. Down here at night we run fans all night & wife 2-3hrs of TV sometimes in summer & winter the furnaces all night. the 6V have never let us down. Haven't used the group 27 battery & can't say por or con, but the old 12v just did not last or Hang-in there.

I do think one of the biggest mistake are not getting a match bank 12V or 6V & when change out batteries trying mix old & new.

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Re: A second battery

Post by Mopar_Earl on 10/28/2010, 7:40 pm

I got one year out of my factory group 24 battery and 5+ years from my 6v batteries. After 5 years I replace them so I can't say how long they'll last. I just change them out to be safe. Been using 6v batteries in my last 3 trailers. Also I use a good multi-stage battery charger/converter to keep from cooking the batteries to death. I only use a single set of 6v batteries. I don't dry camp enough to carry 4.

6v will take a lot of abuse and many more recharges than a standard deep cycle 12v. I'll never go back to 12v batteries!!!


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Re: A second battery

Post by Mopar_Earl on 10/28/2010, 7:46 pm

Sean wrote:Do not forget that wiring batteries of the same type, BUT not the same age could be detrimental to battery life as the old battery might discharge the new battery, and not give you the battery life you hoped to achieve.
Sean.



desertcat wrote:We dry camp a lot & run on battery for a week or two at a time. We have a battery bank of four 6V & 110 watt solar charge set up. Down here at night we run fans all night & wife 2-3hrs of TV sometimes in summer & winter the furnaces all night. the 6V have never let us down. Haven't used the group 27 battery & can't say por or con, but the old 12v just did not last or Hang-in there.

I do think one of the biggest mistake are not getting a match bank 12V or 6V & when change out batteries trying mix old & new.


I agree, you should never ever mix old and new batteries. They give you guidelines on how old/recharge counts the battery bank can be/have to safely replace one battery in the bank. This is normally different from battery type and manufacture.

If you ever get a change to sit in on a battery class, do it! You'd be surprised how little you know about batteries. I've been in 4 different battery classes and I loved them.


Earl


Last edited by Mopar_Earl on 10/28/2010, 7:51 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : Double quotes)

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Re: A second battery

Post by robertz675 on 10/29/2010, 2:39 am

We have gone over a month only turning on the generator when w needed the a/c. Otherwise the solar panels kept everything powered up and charged. I also had previously changed out all of my lighting to LED. That was one of the best improvements that I did.


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Re: A second battery

Post by bighornram on 10/29/2010, 4:44 am

robertz675 wrote:
I also had previously changed out all of my lighting to LED. That was one of the best improvements that I did.


That is my next project. cheers

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Re: A second battery

Post by jackattack on 2/27/2011, 6:47 am

The type 27 at Sams Club are 69.95 each, where do you find the vented boxes, as I will have to cut an another hole and vent the second battery Jack

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