Dirty Power/RV Autoformer

Phillip asked me to post this here in this section to see if others have had this issue or heard of this...

Got the Autoformer just yesterday! I did go with the Hughes...funny thing about these...my good buddy is an electrician. He said "dirty power" will kill HD TV's and about anything else in the camper with a circut board. "Dirty Power" is a direct power source with a lack of voltage....as he was describing it. He said he didn't realize they made these things...but if he had a camper it would be the best $300 a guy could invest...especially if you are plugging in at a busy campground!

CJ

Well, now - that's scary. :(

Bev

He said he didn't realize they made these things...but if he had a camper it would be the best $300 a guy could invest...especially if you are plugging in at a busy campground!

I had to go figure out what " Things " was,

Hughes Autoformer : http://www.autoformers.com/?id=why&loc=inc

I didn't know I needed one of those either.... And still don't understand how it works after reading their site. I'm thinking , Low voltage coming from the park box is gonna be even lower when the box is trying to work also."? But I don't know anything about Elec......... I understand the concept " a little " , But for that kinda money I'd have to make a compartment for it with a lock, I sure wouldn't leave it on the ground by the plug in. ,,,,

I always thought as long as you had a big enough cord to handle the power coming from the source you where good to go. And the service cords from the RV always seemed to be plenty large enough. ? ,,,, Like I said I still don't get it I guess.

Admin wrote:

He said he didn't realize they made these things...but if he had a camper it would be the best $300 a guy could invest...especially if you are plugging in at a busy campground!

I had to go figure out what " Things " was,

Hughes Autoformer : http://www.autoformers.com/?id=why&loc=inc

I didn't know I needed one of those either.... And still don't understand how it works after reading their site. I'm thinking , Low voltage coming from the park box is gonna be even lower when the box is trying to work also."? But I don't know anything about Elec......... I understand the concept " a little " , But for that kinda money I'd have to make a compartment for it with a lock, I sure wouldn't leave it on the ground by the plug in. ,,,,

I always thought as long as you had a big enough cord to handle the power coming from the source you where good to go. And the service cords from the RV always seemed to be plenty large enough. ? ,,,, Like I said I still don't get it I guess.

I wouldn't say you "need" one. I am personally going to get one. I agree with just leaving it outside...I was concerned about that as well...I thought about covering it with a bucket!

At the root of it all...this autoformer will determine the amount of voltage coming out of the plug pole the campground provides. If the autoformer senses that the voltage is low it has the capapbilities of boosting the voltage. Since you would be plugged into the autoformer and not the campground provided plug...the power voltage is regulated THRU the autoformer...thus the hopeful guarantee that you will always have the proper voltage flowing into your RV and then you don't have to worry about your AC not working or your TV/microwave/refrigerator and so on...having the electronics being burnt out!

CJ

You can get 1 of these things to see what your voltage at the park is. I've seen mine drop as low as 95V on hot summer days.

http://www.campingworld.com/browse/skus/index.cfm/Outdoor-and-RV-Accessories/RV-Maintenance/RV-Electrical--Solar/AC-Voltage-Meter/skunum=29375

Admin wrote: I'm thinking , Low voltage coming from the park box is gonna be even lower when the box is trying to work also."?

It's all in the Ohms law formula. Voltage (volts) x Current (amps) = Power (watts). (We'll leave resistance out of it for the moment, but if you gotta know, I posted the basic formulas below.) A device requires a set amount of power to operate. If the voltage drops (brown out) the current must go up to keep the power constant. High current burns things up, trips breakers, blows fuses, etc.



The Autoformer is a voltage transformer that supplies your cat with a constant voltage regardless of the park voltage. The voltage supplied to the cat is usually higher than park voltage. Higher voltage = less current = cooler and happier appliances.

You should also be able to run more stuff if you have a Autoformer. Here's the math. Your trailer has a 30A main. If the park voltage is 105V, then 30A will give you 3150W. However, if you have a transformer that boost the voltage to 122V, then 30A will give you 3660W.

You cannot defy the laws of physics, a transformer does not create power, it simply changes (transforms) it. In the process of stepping up the voltage, the current from the park source will be higher than the current going to your trailer (this is your objective), but you don't care about that, you only care about what gets to your trailer.

A transformer is simply two windings that are inductively coupled by alternating current. The number of windings in each coil determines the step-up or step-down in voltage. For example, this is how they take a 480V main and step-down to 240V for your house.
Transformer info

As long as I'm rambling, one more thought on current vs voltage that illustrates why high current is bad. Long distance power lines run at very high voltage (110kV or more) to reduce loss. Remember, higher voltage = lower current (see Ohm's law above). Current creates heat, heat is power loss and is bad. When you transmit power, you want as much of it to get to the other end as possible. Therefore you run it at high voltage to keep the current low. Guess how they get that 110kV down to something you can use? You got it, a transformer (or series of them).

Of course, there are limitations (no free lunch). If the park voltage drops too low, I suspect the autoformer disconnects or it will blow the park breaker.

I think i got it. ,,,,,,,,,,,

:drunken:

Yeah what Scott said!

It does make sense though!

scottz wrote:
Of course, there are limitations (no free lunch). If the park voltage drops too low, I suspect the autoformer disconnects or it will blow the park breaker.

That is correct. I believe it's less than 95 volts, but I can't find it on the web.

Admin wrote:

He said he didn't realize they made these things...but if he had a camper it would be the best $300 a guy could invest...especially if you are plugging in at a busy campground!

I had to go figure out what " Things " was,

Hughes Autoformer : http://www.autoformers.com/?id=why&loc=inc

I didn't know I needed one of those either.... And still don't understand how it works after reading their site. I'm thinking , Low voltage coming from the park box is gonna be even lower when the box is trying to work also."? But I don't know anything about Elec......... I understand the concept " a little " , But for that kinda money I'd have to make a compartment for it with a lock, I sure wouldn't leave it on the ground by the plug in. ,,,,

I always thought as long as you had a big enough cord to handle the power coming from the source you where good to go. And the service cords from the RV always seemed to be plenty large enough. ? ,,,, Like I said I still don't get it I guess.

Install it inside of your camper. You can buy an install kit or go to the hardware store and make your own like I did. It should fit in the same compartment where you cord storage is. Take a look at my installation pics.

Bumping this thread back up cause its got all those japanese symbol stuff that scott wrote.

I got the autoformer, and the voltage meter plug in thing you put in the receptacle inside. Didn't really see it boost much at the campground. I could see the meter working from around the edge of the red on the left and back toward the 120 mark.
But when I got home and plugged it into my drop chord at home, I saw it boost and work then. I could see it working on the voltage meter inside. I only had the hot water heater on electric and it was drawing down good. and the living room lights and fan on. I think the converter had kicked on also.
But you could see the draw on the meter and the boost light was on. Held the meter back toward the 120 mark I think around 115 or so.
My next question is , How long should you leave the box boosting before you cut something off to give it a break ? Will it mess the autoformer up by leaving it boosting for long periods ?

And the next question after that is :
what happens if you plug into a 50a breaker at the campground when you have a camper set up for 30a.

Admin wrote:Bumping this thread back up cause its got all those japanese symbol stuff that scott wrote.

I got the autoformer, and the voltage meter plug in thing you put in the receptacle inside. Didn't really see it boost much at the campground. I could see the meter working from around the edge of the red on the left and back toward the 120 mark.
But when I got home and plugged it into my drop chord at home, I saw it boost and work then. I could see it working on the voltage meter inside. I only had the hot water heater on electric and it was drawing down good. and the living room lights and fan on. I think the converter had kicked on also.
But you could see the draw on the meter and the boost light was on. Held the meter back toward the 120 mark I think around 115 or so.
My next question is , How long should you leave the box boosting before you cut something off to give it a break ? Will it mess the autoformer up by leaving it boosting for long periods ?

And the next question after that is :
what happens if you plug into a 50a breaker at the campground when you have a camper set up for 30a.

Call here, this is the phone number for Hughes:
TECHNICAL QUESTIONS
1-888-540-1504 M-F 9:00 a.m. – 4:00 p.m. PST
Let us know what they say.

Y'all do make a good point for purchasing a voltage conditioning transformer.

I've never had any issues until the last 2 camping trips. On both trips, the main AC breaker in the Cat tripped. I knew the problem was the CG voltage was dropping, causing the current to go up.

I know if I put this off, operating the Cat in an almost brown out environment, will cost me much more than the cost of the auto-transformer.

Anyone have a preference where to purchase one of these?

Thanks,
Mark

Here:
http://www.pplmotorhomes.com/parts/rv-power-cords/30-amp-autoformer.htm + approx. $22 - $25 shipping
or
http://www.tweetys.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=9380 + approx. $20 shipping

shooter wrote:Install it inside of your camper. You can buy an install kit or go to the hardware store and make your own like I did. It should fit in the same compartment where you cord storage is. Take a look at my installation pics.

Have you noticed an issue with heat build up by putting it in that enclosed compartment?

Admin wrote:My next question is , How long should you leave the box boosting before you cut something off to give it a break ? Will it mess the autoformer up by leaving it boosting for long periods ?

And the next question after that is :
what happens if you plug into a 50a breaker at the campground when you have a camper set up for 30a.

Question 1: You should be ok; this thing should be designed for continuous duty. However, a call to Hughes might be in order. The only thing I would worry about is mounting it inside a non-vented compartment; heat may be an issue then (waiting for Mike (Shooter) to tell us how his runs). I would not be too alarmed when it does get hot, that is the way transformers work. (Keep in mind, all this info is coming from a guy who does not have one. :roll: Since I seldom hook up, I figure I don't need one, but you guys are working on me)

Question 2: Doesn't matter, both are 120VAC, 60HZ; with the 50A you just have more current available, but your cat can't use it. You will need the appropriate adapter.

50 amp service would cure all ills, if you have the 50-30amp adapter. I've added the autotransformer to my wish list, just behind the equiflex suspension upgrade.

-Mark

MaxRock wrote:50 amp service would cure all ills Mark

Yes, but only if you upgrade the cat to use 50amp service ($$$$$$). FR could have done us all a favor and designed the cat for 50A in the first place.

No matter how much current is available at the pole (whether it is 30A, 50A or 1000A), your cat is only designed to take 30A. Breakers will trip above that.

Think of it as a bucket of water with a small hole in the bottom. No matter how much water is in the bucket, the hole determines how much water comes out (disregarding the pressure of the water). Your cat has 30A max service. So, if you hook to a 30A pole you could possibly max out the service. If you hook to a 50A pole, you are still only going to be able to use 30A maximum.

The advantage to hooking to a 50A circuit is, when the cat is pulling a full 30A, you would only be taxing the service at 60%. You would never have to worry about the pole breaker tripping. However, this really is not an issue, in most cases, the limitation is going to be in the cat; I think breakers would trip in the cat before the pole breaker trips.

Scott,

Good point. Just because 50 amps is available, doesn't mean the voltage would not drop to 100 VAC or less, it wouldn't help the current issue. The 30 amp main in the Cat is the limiting factor.

-Mark

scottz wrote:

shooter wrote:Install it inside of your camper. You can buy an install kit or go to the hardware store and make your own like I did. It should fit in the same compartment where you cord storage is. Take a look at my installation pics.

Have you noticed an issue with heat build up by putting it in that enclosed compartment?

No, but I did put in some vent holes, just in case.

shooter wrote:

scottz wrote:

shooter wrote:Install it inside of your camper. You can buy an install kit or go to the hardware store and make your own like I did. It should fit in the same compartment where you cord storage is. Take a look at my installation pics.

Have you noticed an issue with heat build up by putting it in that enclosed compartment?

No, but I did put in some vent holes, just in case.

Good idea.

Scottz :
Yes, but only if you upgrade the cat to use 50amp service ($$$$$$

What would you have to do to change it to 50a besides putting a 50a breaker in there ?


I called Hughes and the guy said it will boost forever with noproblem. Plug it in and forgetaboutit.

Nice to know...y'all are going to put me in the poor house with all the upgrades!

-Mark

;yep, I'd heap rather had spent the money on some new alum wheels. But figuring it gives you some surge protection also if you take a hit, I felt it was worth it. although I almost took it back the next morning.

Admin wrote:

Scottz :
Yes, but only if you upgrade the cat to use 50amp service ($$$$$$

What would you have to do to change it to 50a besides putting a 50a breaker in there ?


I called Hughes and the guy said it will boost forever with noproblem. Plug it in and forgetaboutit.

I have not researched it, but probably just the cord, plug, and AC panel/converter. The wiring in the cat should be ok because it is just feeds off the panel; already sized for the equipment it feeds. Actually might not be that expensive.

If I had to replace the AC panel/converter I would make the jump to 50amp.

I am going to buy one this week, was going to put it off till winter but have had alot of electrical storms here lately and im worried about surges.
Ive only noticed low power once and that was running my generator and the wife having every electrical appliance know turned on.

Its a good thing the autoformer's a Surge protector to. Protects going both ways To much or to little

while at the Ga power owned campground this weekend , the autoformer cycled on a lot. Especially when the air kicked on. I'm very glad I bought it now.
But you'd think a campground owned by a power company would have plenty of power. ?

I got a Franks Autoformer this summer. I have it locked to the axel under the 5er right now, but I think I will install it in the compartment that the cord is stored in while it is home this winter. I will have to put some vents in since the 31QBH doesn’t have any in that compartment.