Ford 6.4 TD

I have thoroughly enjoyed my Toyota Tundra and it has done a great job pulling the Cat. I have, however, had some concern about the payload. The truck is rated at 1675# and with a pin weight of 1100# it doesn't leave much room for "stuff" not to mention my wife and me. I am looking at a 2008 Ford 250HD with the 6.4 lt deisel. Having no experience with diesels, I'm looking for some input as to the pros and cons.

I'd get the F350 to get the higher gross ratings. It doesn't cost much more and the ride isn't really noticably rougher over a F250. I bet your 1100# pin weight is a lot higher even on a 27RL. I bet you are closer to 1800-2000#. Have you weighed your rig? that will tell the story. My 31QBH is over 12k easily. I had 10,500# on the trailer axles and 2200# on the pin.

The 6.4L is fine. It had a few hiccups early on, but as far as I know, they are not having any issues with it now. (i.e. flame thrower regen, radiators failures).

Ford is releasing a 6.7L Diesel early next year that isn't built by Navistar. I want to say Dec 31, 2009 is the last day for the 6.4L.

You can't go wrong with a diesel!

I have an '08 F350 (one of the first off the assembly line) and I love it (see the sig for more particulars).

Pros, hardly know the trailer is back there. I have the King Ranch trim, so the seats are really comfy on long road trips. Plenty of twist at 650 ft-lbs stock. My brother has a Chevy big block gasser with a trailer that weighs about the same and I can keep the cruise at 60 in the mountains and wave goodbye.

Cons, fuel mileage, diesels made after Jan 1, 2007 had to have diesel particulate filters and one of the strategies for cleaning it burns extra fuel. My rig weighs 9,000 lbs and the trailer weighs 10,000. I'll get 10 (with 4.10 gears) at best pulling the trailer mostly in hilly terrain since there are mountains to climb in every direction to get out of SoCal. Bobtail is around 11 (25% highway 75% streets) but I have gotten as high as 14 on pure highway. The 6.4 is going away after the 2009 model year as the new diesel EPA laws go into effect on Jan 1, 2010. Even stricter limits on emissions.

Phillip,

5 months ago I would have argued with you on this topic. But, with today's auto manufacturers state of health, I'm not so sure. GM is in trouble, Chrysler is in real trouble. I can't believe that Ford is in much better shape, they just haven't made it public yet. Even toyota is seeing huge losses.

Not to make this political, but if we can keep the govt out of the auto industry, let GM file chapter 11 and restructure on their own, they would come back stronger and leaner than before. Now they are at the govt mercy and that isn't good for anyone.

With that said, today I would buy another GM product, tomorrow, maybe not. Only time will tell. :x

Don't forget about the High Mobility Multipurpose Wheeled Vehicle (HMMWV). There is a lot of GM in that vehicle! That a very successful multi-purpose military vehicle!

This is going way off topic. There should be nothing but Ford discussed in this thread....

It could have been just a ford topic until someone drug the better vehicles into the discussion!!!

jetskier wrote:This is going way off topic. There should be nothing but Ford discussed in this thread....

Funny thing about that ..... Most of the discussions on this thread are about Ford Power Smoke Problems . Very few issues with Dodge CTD's or Chevy DM's

Outta here

Mike,

You are right, that is odd. If you look at the poll that Phillip started asking the type of truck we used, the number of discussions are not in line with the number of trucks owned. HHHMMMMm...I wonder what that could mean????

MaxRock wrote:You are right, that is odd. If you look at the poll that Phillip started asking the type of truck we used, the number of discussions are not in line with the number of trucks owned. HHHMMMMm...I wonder what that could mean????

I'd be embarrassed too if I had a Dodge or GM product. The Ford guys are proud..

jetskier wrote:I'd be embarrassed too if I had a Dodge or GM product. The Ford guys are proud..

No need to be embarrassed. Maybe we haven't had the issues you blue oval guys have had! I have over 211k miles on my Chevy and had minimal amount of issues with it. This is the first generation DMax that was suppose to have all the issues! My truck has been flawless. I hoping to get another 200k miles out of her and then I'll look for a replacement. By that time there is no telling what kind of shape the domestic manufacturers will be in, if they even exist.

By that time there is no telling what kind of shape the domestic manufacturers will be in, if they even exist.

I know what you mean..... I hope they all get it together some how or another. It's looking bleak for all kinds of business's.

Our town lost its Chevy dealer a few weeks ago.
I had a couple friends that worked there, Bam - no Job and no prospects for a job. That chevy dealer was there way before I was born in 61', Its was a bit of a shock to drive by and see a ghostly looking building. The dealer thought chevy was bluffing I guess, so he didn't really give his employees a solid heads up , just a " Maybe"...... Then the hammer dropped out of the blue. No financing for the dealer to stock the show room, and repo'd the ones that were already there.
The Dodge dealer here I know pretty good also. They have jeep/dodge / nissan so I think they may survive, I hope so.
The ford dealer here I'm not sure will survive if the main HQ's starts firing dealers like Dodge and chevy are doing.
I tell ya, I like pretty much anything with 4 wheels and running.
I don't won't to see that many people out of a job, even if they just lay the big plants off for several months. Thats a tough row to hoe when your pay check gets cut down to pennys....
And Gas is creeping back up Which is gonna hurt even worse. And all that is gonna eventually trickle back down to my job again in the Aggregate business......
5 years from now we may all be bust'n on each others Nag, I mean Horse and buggy....... I think I'll be looking toward a Big Strong Morgan........ But will only be able to afford a few goats and a home made Kart...... and somebody will probably trick me into buying those fainting goats that fall out when they get spooked.


5-14-09 Update :
They're closing the dodge side of the business here in town,,,,, They'll keep the Nissan and boost the used cars....... Wow, thats 2 down, only Toyota and ford left but for how long ?

I am somewhat amazed at the milage (quoted for the 6.4). I figured it would be much better. I get 10 pulling with the Tundra and about 16.5 overall. Most of my driving is rural roads not much highway. My preception was that diesels had higher mpg.

The diesels would have better mileage, but you've got to find a way around the regen and still be able to pass emissions if you need to. The regen systym takes extra fuel to burn the gunk in the DPF. OH YEAH DMAX'S rule

IMHO ...

The "near" perfect truck:
Cummins Deisel
Allison Transmission
Ford Truck frame

Having said that, I'm darn pround of my Chevy 2500.

Frank L. I think the biggest overall thing is your getting a heavier " Safer " Truck with a Diesel. Thats my Op....

Frank,

Also remember the way a person drives the vehicle makes a huge impact on the mileage. With my DW's Tahoe, I can get 2-3 MPG better than she can driving the same roads. I know I'm a "coast down the hill" kinda guy. I pop my 6 speed (manual) into neutral and coast down a long hill by my home. Over time, this has to save fuel. I also coast to red lights/stop signs. My DW has a different approach, and thats all I'm going to say about that!

My '02 DMax gets a solid 20MPG driving to work, 40 miles each way, about 50/50 highway/city. Pulling the Cat I've gotten as high as 14MPG and as low as 10.5MPG. I find wind is as bad or worse than terrain. I love my DMax, it has paid for itself a long time ago and still going strong. Most gas engines when they get in the 200k mile range, start loosing performance. This engine feels as strong today (211k miles) as it did at 10k miles (took that long to fully break it in)

Maxrock,,,, Your called a " Hypermiler"

My grandfather was doing that stuff when I was a kid,,, used to drive me NUTS...... But today I understand why he was doing it.

A 10 mile ride with him seemed like hours.....

I have, however, had some concern about the payload. The truck is rated at 1675# and with a pin weight of 1100# it doesn't leave much room for "stuff" not to mention my wife and me

Frank L , after rereading your initial post, your headed in the right direction. Fuel economy factors in 2nd to safety.

I do think that some of the chip mod's for diesel's make them get better MPG pulling a load.

Phillip,

I'm not that bad...just try to coast when I can and where it makes sense. It also helps offset the times I turn the tuner on and blow all kinds of black smoke merging on the highway or just out having fun! I'm still a kid at heart...at least that's what my DW tells me!

My brother's 2008 F350 6.4L CC/SB got 8mpg in a headwind pulling his 15k 40' toyhauler. He "said" he got 10-11mpg heading to his destination. He only has the (29gal tank) so he had to stop every couple hundred miles when it hit 1/4 of a tank. He claims it gets around 14mpg empty (not entirely highway). When the dash message center notifies it started a regen, the fuel economy drops until it's finished. He said it regen'd a lot when he towed on this last trip.

What is regen?

My 7.3 runs too good to even think about a new one.

scottz wrote:My 7.3 runs too good to even think about a new one.

Ditto here. Not to mention my 3 sons would destroy the paint on a new truck. Handlebars are not my friend.

Scott, A regen is when the computer dumps additional fuel to clean/burn the contaminates off of the dpf (diesel particulate filter). More of the govts mandates! Cleaner emissions but the mileage goes to crap, sort of like the gas engines of the mid-70s & 80s. Doesn't make to much sense in my book.

Jetskier, that is odd the truck regens more when pulling than during normal driving. I was under the impression that if you were working the engine, keeping the EGT up, the dpf wouldn't get as contaminated. Learn something new every day!

MaxRock wrote:Jetskier, that is odd the truck regens more when pulling than during normal driving. I was under the impression that if you were working the engine, keeping the EGT up, the dpf wouldn't get as contaminated. Learn something new every day!

Here's the stuff from the Ford tech site (TSB 07-4-11 6.4L DIESEL - REGENERATION FUNCTIONAL CHARACTERISTICS)

OPERATING CHARACTERISTICS
Diesel particulates in the exhaust are trapped by the DPF. Regeneration is the process by which exhaust temperatures are increased so the particulates are combusted.
The frequency and length of regeneration will fluctuate as both are determined by the drive cycle. For most drive conditions, regeneration frequency will vary from 100 - 600 miles (161 - 804 Km) between occurrence and last from 10 to 40 minutes. The first regeneration does not require 100 miles (161 Km) and may occur at any time. The length of regeneration is usually reduced if a constant speed above 30 MPH (48 Km/h) is maintained.
The following is a list of normal operation while the vehicle is in regeneration, and do not require repair. If you are not sure if the vehicle is in regeneration, IDS can be used to monitor the Diesel Particulate Filter (DPF) PID.

• Engine idle speed can be 1100 to 1200 RPM in park/neutral with foot off brake.
  
• High idle speed drops to within 50 RPM of normal idle when the brake pedal is touched, PRNDL is actuated, or clutch is actuated.
  
• White smoke in cold ambients is normal and the amount will be increased during regeneration.
  
• Powertrain power is limited to 325 horsepower (HP).
  
• Engine responsiveness may be slightly different than normal operation.
  
• During initiation of regeneration, exhaust smell may be noticed - especially on new vehicles.
  
• Powertrain sound will be different including air induction noise (including flutter on deceleration or engine shut down), exhaust noise, and changes in engine radiated noise.
  
• During regeneration, exhaust temperatures are elevated.
  

The following is also normal and may be observed by a technician using a diagnostic tool. It is not likely that a customer would be aware of these:

• The throttle body is only active during the regeneration process and during shutdown.
  
• EGR is not operating during regeneration.
  

Wow! Thanks to the government.

Frank L wrote:I am somewhat amazed at the milage (quoted for the 6.4). I figured it would be much better. I get 10 pulling with the Tundra and about 16.5 overall. Most of my driving is rural roads not much highway. My preception was that diesels had higher mpg.

Remember that you've only heard about the 6.4 mileage from one guy with a long-bed, 4x4, dually with a 4.10 rear-end. That monster weighs 9,000 lbs with my wide load in the front seat (GVW for my Super Duty is 13,000 lbs). It's at least a 1,000 lbs heavier than a comparable Chevy or Dodge. I'd wait to make pronouncement on the Ford's mileage until you hear from someone that's got close to what your rig is going to be.

I figure that without the extra weight from the long-bed and the 4x4 drive train, lower rolling resistance with only four shoes on the road instead of my six and go to 3.73 gears I'd be getting at least 12 MPG towing and 14 - 15 bob-tailing around town.

My 7.3 gets 16-18 empty and 10-14 with the cat.